How Do You Handle Living Here?

[DawnHRD]

I'm sorry, Edwina, but in my own opinion, that last post of yours comes across as extremely arrogant.

You want to "change the glaringly obvious issues that make this place bad."? Well, good luck with that.

Do "a little to improve the life of the masses and create a safe and fair world here at least...". Well, do it then. As johnnyk said, go & find an organisation that needs your help, befriend some local kids & teach them English for free. Anything!

Does no-one have the energy/guts/will/values to even have an opinion?

No offence to anyone here in person but maybe it is easy to do nothing here. That's fine but please accept that living here in Thailand and doing nothing is a particular stance and not a general one. Some of us want to live her AND do something whatever it might be andwe look to make positive improvements.

Do you really think that you're the only person that lives here that wants to make a difference? There was a member here, Sarge, that used to go & help the people who were forced to live in tin shacks build their houses. He integrated fully into the community & was very well respected for it. He didn't try to change the Thais (in fact he would probably be arguing with you on this thread), he just tried to make life better for them, within their own world. Many other members do things to help the local community. The difference is they do it, they don't get angry or frustrated - they just do what they think needs to be done to help.

I just have one question for you - Why are you so sure that you are right & that the Thais need to be changed?

Yes, there are problems with living here. Yes, we all have our gripes. But if you really feel that you need to change the Thais, their culture & ways, then I would respectfully suggest that maybe it would be easier to change your take on the situation or find somewhere to live that suits you better.

[Wanderlust]

Once again Dawn has hit the nail on the head I think. I would like to add, or rather emphasise something else as well - the Thais are a very proud people - proud of their King, proud of the fact that they have never been colonised, proud of many things in fact, and I think this has a lot to do with why they may appear to you, edwinadanish, as not wanting your help, or to learn, and it envelopes another key Thai (and Asian) issue which I still struggle to understand myself, that of 'face' and avoiding the loss of face. I understand the basic concept of course, but in Thailand it goes way beyond that, and I think any attempts by 'farang' to instruct or tell Thais how to do something will involve a loss of face; on the other hand, subtle helping with something would not. There are others on here who I am sure understand the 'face' thing much better than I, who will be able to explain it better.
One final thing, which it appears as if you have realised already, is that the Buddhism practiced in Thailand is far removed from that practiced in the West or even other Asian countries, and on a day to day basis is mixed with animism a great deal. If your belief was one of the things that brought you here, then I would imagine you have been very disappointed in how Buddhism is lived here, and that may be a constructive reason to go to another Buddhist country instead; alternatively stay here and learn more about the Thais and their way of life, and be an observer for a time rather than trying to be proactive. I think it is possible that you had a mental picture of how life was going to be in a Buddhist country, and Thailand has fallen well short of that expectation.

[SuperTonic]

I just have one question for you - Why are you so sure that you are right & that the Thais need to be changed?

Honestly, I'd go further and suggest that Edwina feels that she is right and EVERYONE else is wrong (just look at her approach to other posters who have been critical of her without being personal, myself included). I'm beginning to smell a wind-up here.

[lindosfan1]

Dawn and Wanderlust are quite correct, I was reading through the threads this morning and in 2 threads the suggestion was to consider notliving in Thailand, does this not make you think that you may have a problem.
Yes Farangs do help the Thais but not change them. I suggest you sit back chill out and consider your options

[Farang]

So you’ve been a Buddhist for 20 fashionable years? One of the first ones in your circles, eh?
Very, avant-garde, very fashionable, I am sure. Surely you can teach a thing or two to Thais about Buddhism.

And now you’ve come to Thailand with its 97 % of Buddhist population, and you did not find this a society
uniformly enlightened, smiling, serene fellow Buddhists? Must’ve been quite a come-down, wasn’t it?

Oh, I feel your growing pains. It is not easy to grow up, and the rite of passage to mental adulthood
truly is excruciating. And ever more so as it is so much easier to be a (insert here Buddhist, Communist,
or any other convert to any fashionable set of beliefs afflicting teenagers) in the comforting folds of
Nordic welfare society. It never is as easy in the Real World where one must feed the kids,
get another piece of cardboard to mend the leaking roof and somehow find the money to cure
grandmother’s stomach pains.

No council housing here, no free medicine, no dole, no relief!

Somehow the lofty thoughts and noble ideas of (insert here your favorite -ism) fly more daringly in the
absence of everyday realities, particularly the grinding, hopeless, incessant poverty.
An old adage has it that good deeds originate in welfare, bad deeds in poverty. It is so very, very
true here in Buddhist Thailand. This is no paradise for a naïve believer, no matter how fervently wished for.

I whipped up some energy to have guts to will some of my values onto you:

Stop whining even if Thais do not instantly convert to your way of thinking.
Stop arrogantly thinking that your values are the only good ones.
Stop talking about improving the life of the masses,
Star doing something about it, and, above all:

Grow up.

[Chas]

I have to give Edwin (a) credit for bringing up issues that I am sure we have all struggled with if we have lived here for any length of time. I admire his/her obviously thoughtful posts and I am not so sure the tirades that those posts have generated are deserved. I dont agree with everything in those posts, I dont think every conclusion is well thought out. .but the discussion is worthwhile . .and I feel it would be good to continue this discussion with respect for each other as we work our way through the issues that affect our lives here.

[Georgy Porgy]

Well facilitated, Chas!

[Francois]

I'm sorry, Edwina, but in my own opinion, that last post of yours comes across as extremely arrogant.

DNFTT

Do not feed the troll

[KelpieKiss]

I wasn't in Thailand 30 years ago so I don't know what it was like before major western influence. I did go to Laos 10 years ago when there was almost no western influence. What I found was nothing but incredibly honest, polite, friendly, amazing people. I loved it.

Went back 2 years ago and a lot of the people seem to have undergone a huge change in attitude towards foreigners. I tried to do some friendly bartering on the price of a tuk tuk and was told very abruptly to pay or f-off. The more time I spent there, the more of this kind of person I met. Mind completely corrupted by greed and money. I don't see anything wrong with trying to make a buck but it does seem to go hand in hand with people losing their good natures.

In the west we have learned to hide our greed somewhat and rip people of under the guise of respectability. Maybe it's just that the Thais haven't quite got the hang of that yet so they come across as greedy when maybe they're just not as good at hiding it. Possibly more honest? I don't know but to think that the Thais are all going to be walking around constantly mindful of Buddhist teachings is a bit naive. They're just as human as the rest of us and like to make money.

If I was going to try and change one thing about Thailand it would be to get them to use some soap on their hands after they take a dump and before they make me food. Also covering their mouths when they cough.

[DawnHRD]

I'm sorry, Edwina, but in my own opinion, that last post of yours comes across as extremely arrogant.

DNFTT

Do not feed the troll

Are you calling me a troll, Francois?

[Francois]

Are you calling me a troll, Francois?

No Dawn, I hope you noticed it's not you

But you know, I'm always irritated by these god-fearing people who have a doctrinaire approach...

[edwinadanish]

I have to give Edwin (a) credit for bringing up issues that I am sure we have all struggled with if we have lived here for any length of time. I admire his/her obviously thoughtful posts and I am not so sure the tirades that those posts have generated are deserved. I dont agree with everything in those posts, I dont think every conclusion is well thought out. .but the discussion is worthwhile . .and I feel it would be good to continue this discussion with respect for each other as we work our way through the issues that affect our lives here.

Thank you Chas.

I have not been rude to anyone or judged anyone. I have merely said what I feel and see.

This apparently is too much for some people or they don't understand the point that discussion is simply supposed to be exactly that 'discussion' and we are all entitled to our opinion and respect for it.

Instead I read insults and personal judgements of me from people who don't know me and apparently don't understand my views. For even those supposed to be moderators t descend to this is not or me.

My thanks to those who contributed positive and constructive comments - I will try to follow the advice and I can see much is correct.

This has not been a wind up, these were my troubled feelings at times here, but over all I do like this country and respect the people and I have realised that the Thais are a lot more polite that some visitors here.

[edwinadanish]

To add to my previous post, I just scanned around a few other threads here on HHAD and it is quite amazing how many times the same old voices just answer every discussion with -

go somewhere else

HH is not for you

you should think abouyt why you live here


or some other variation.

The same old unimaginative superior (I've been here longer than you and probably drank more than you) negative response.

WHat's the point iof a forum if people outside the old guard can't make fair points or ask for help without getting told to leave...

Well, I am leaving - I find it very depressing here on HHAD forum.

No offence to anyone in particular here but I just find it more constructive on other forums where the moderation sets an example of tolerance and shows more respect to the posters.

[DawnHRD]

Instead I read insults and personal judgements of me from people who don't know me and apparently don't understand my views. For even those supposed to be moderators t descend to this is not or me.

No offence to anyone in particular here but I just find it more constructive on other forums where the moderation sets an example of tolerance and shows more respect to the posters.

Firstly, I have made it perfectly clear in my posts that the views expressed are my own personal opinion. Am I not entitled to an opinion, because I'm a moderator?

Secondly, I haven't seen anything here that has required moderation, yet. Not from you nor any other member. I assume my fellow mods agree with my view, or they would have moderated anything inappropriate. I'm sorry you feel that HHAD isn't moderated strongly enough. It's often the other complaint (too much moderation) that we hear, so I guess we're wrong in somebody's eyes no matter what we do. We try to keep discussions appropriate & within the rules, but it is not our job to police peoples' opinions or take away their rights to voice them. It wouldn't be much of a forum if we did.



personal opinion

I have not been rude to anyone or judged anyone.

I assume you mean apart from the Thais?

[crazy88]

Edwina

Don't be such a lightweight . Taking your ball home will not solve anything .Get back on your soapbox and show some of the conviction in your beliefs you claim to have .

Crazy 88