Avalon
My level of surprise will depend on who funded the build ?
You raise some good points Miked .
The show value of the biggest house,merc on driveway,hideous pink balustrades etc . will be more important to most Thais than the quality of construction or finishings .
Most Thais will cut down costs at EVERY available opportunity .Many builders do the same as they get screwed down on price constantly .
IMO one of the reasons for what we consider poor build quality is that this is what they are used to building .They do not understand why ,if a build is good enough for their local Poo Yai,it is not good enough for a farang .
The vast majority of construction workers have no concept of what we want or expect .Getting involved as you mentioned in an earlier post will ease things along and avoid a lot of problems,but,only if you know what you are doing(here,not at home) .Otherwise it will make things worse I can assure you .
If you are paying a builder,Thai or western,to build for you then they should be on site,every day, making sure the job is being done properly .
If you cut costs and employ the cheapest insect eating,lao kao drinking ,white wellington boot wearing , balaclava clad ,serial nose-picker to run your job, then you have only yourself to blame when it is not up to scratch .
If you buy from a developer who spends more time on the golf course or rolling around in the gutter fighting outside karaoke bars at 4am than they do on-site then you may well end up with a similar build quality .
Crazy 88
You raise some good points Miked .
The show value of the biggest house,merc on driveway,hideous pink balustrades etc . will be more important to most Thais than the quality of construction or finishings .
Most Thais will cut down costs at EVERY available opportunity .Many builders do the same as they get screwed down on price constantly .
IMO one of the reasons for what we consider poor build quality is that this is what they are used to building .They do not understand why ,if a build is good enough for their local Poo Yai,it is not good enough for a farang .
The vast majority of construction workers have no concept of what we want or expect .Getting involved as you mentioned in an earlier post will ease things along and avoid a lot of problems,but,only if you know what you are doing(here,not at home) .Otherwise it will make things worse I can assure you .
If you are paying a builder,Thai or western,to build for you then they should be on site,every day, making sure the job is being done properly .
If you cut costs and employ the cheapest insect eating,lao kao drinking ,white wellington boot wearing , balaclava clad ,serial nose-picker to run your job, then you have only yourself to blame when it is not up to scratch .
If you buy from a developer who spends more time on the golf course or rolling around in the gutter fighting outside karaoke bars at 4am than they do on-site then you may well end up with a similar build quality .
Crazy 88
Last edited by crazy88 on Tue May 06, 2008 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever gave you that impression Nevets ?
Point was that I doubt the Pope would get a bunch of YTS trainees in to revamp the Cistene in order to save a few Lira .
There are plenty of highly skilled people here that work for a few more buttons and produce outstanding results .When you find them , keep them .
Crazy 88
Point was that I doubt the Pope would get a bunch of YTS trainees in to revamp the Cistene in order to save a few Lira .
There are plenty of highly skilled people here that work for a few more buttons and produce outstanding results .When you find them , keep them .
Crazy 88
Re: Avalon
miked wrote:
generally the builders here can/will be as good as your management of them, as you obviously know building practices you could show them what you want and i'll bet you'll be happy enough, relevant to what you are paying. as for the more skilled finishing trades, they can be found/borrowed if you pay the rates.
you were the one who rented a leaking 'bolted-from-the-outside roof house with no earthing, not nevets
there's no need to talk down to people
.
or is it fair to say you are not happy with the one's that built the house you decided to rent ?i for one am not happy with thai builders
generally the builders here can/will be as good as your management of them, as you obviously know building practices you could show them what you want and i'll bet you'll be happy enough, relevant to what you are paying. as for the more skilled finishing trades, they can be found/borrowed if you pay the rates.
you talk about badly constructed roofs and roof tiles bolted from the outside, but as you know building practices so well you'll know that you should build a roof here with the typical CPAC monier roof tiles, that are not bolted at all but inter-lock by pre-formed grooves/slots and have cement bedded ridge tilesthen i suggest you understand very little about good building practise
you were the one who rented a leaking 'bolted-from-the-outside roof house with no earthing, not nevets
there's no need to talk down to people
.
"show them what you want and i'll bet you'll be happy enough"
"bolted from the outside"
"cement bedded ridge tiles "
This thread appears to be getting a bit Barbara Cartland/Mills&Boon
Let's get back to the "Hard facts"
Who paid for this atrocious sounding,overgrown rabbit hutch and have they painted it pink/turquoise yet ?
Crazy 88
"bolted from the outside"
"cement bedded ridge tiles "
This thread appears to be getting a bit Barbara Cartland/Mills&Boon
Let's get back to the "Hard facts"
Who paid for this atrocious sounding,overgrown rabbit hutch and have they painted it pink/turquoise yet ?
Crazy 88
AVALON
crazy88
have a look at some of the houses in and around Hua Hin/ Cha am. you will see many houses that have roofing sheets fitted. the sheets can be anything from 1.5 met in lengh down to the same size as a concrete tile. the tile size looks very similar to the concrete tile but it has the advantage of being much lighter in weight.
a clip is availabe to fix this roofing sheet without drilling any holes through the material. this clip,cost 3 baht each,is rarely used. generally thais drill and bolt.
as regards ridge tiles the ones fitted here are simply not big enough. this you will see on nearly every roof here, probably even on your own. have a look at you roof and you will see the ridge tile has been raised on a bed of concrete. this concrete will crack within months and cause a leak. in any proper construction the ridge tile will overlap the roof tile.
miked
have a look at some of the houses in and around Hua Hin/ Cha am. you will see many houses that have roofing sheets fitted. the sheets can be anything from 1.5 met in lengh down to the same size as a concrete tile. the tile size looks very similar to the concrete tile but it has the advantage of being much lighter in weight.
a clip is availabe to fix this roofing sheet without drilling any holes through the material. this clip,cost 3 baht each,is rarely used. generally thais drill and bolt.
as regards ridge tiles the ones fitted here are simply not big enough. this you will see on nearly every roof here, probably even on your own. have a look at you roof and you will see the ridge tile has been raised on a bed of concrete. this concrete will crack within months and cause a leak. in any proper construction the ridge tile will overlap the roof tile.
miked
Re: AVALON
miked wrote:
roof tiles/sheets 1.5m in length - thats like 4.95 foot in width, thats a rocker tile. where/why ?? standard is 300mm in width/length
Raised on a bed of concrete - yes ridge tiles are supposed to be raised on a concrete bed
concrete will crack within months - why ?? does concrete have to crack ?
.
this is really bizarre:you will see many houses that have roofing sheets fitted. the sheets can be anything from 1.5 met in lengh
you will see the ridge tile has been raised on a bed of concrete. this concrete will crack within months and cause a leak
roof tiles/sheets 1.5m in length - thats like 4.95 foot in width, thats a rocker tile. where/why ?? standard is 300mm in width/length
Raised on a bed of concrete - yes ridge tiles are supposed to be raised on a concrete bed
concrete will crack within months - why ?? does concrete have to crack ?
.
Avalon
Super Joe,
ridge tiles should be set on a bed of concrete not raised. problem here is the ridge tiles used are not big enough. yes concrete will crack. why do you think lead flashing is used in u.k.??? for show????
miked
ridge tiles should be set on a bed of concrete not raised. problem here is the ridge tiles used are not big enough. yes concrete will crack. why do you think lead flashing is used in u.k.??? for show????
miked
Re: Avalon
are you implying that lead flashing is used under the ridge tiles in the uk.miked wrote:Super Joe,
ridge tiles should be set on a bed of concrete not raised. problem here is the ridge tiles used are not big enough. yes concrete will crack. why do you think lead flashing is used in u.k.??? for show????
miked
"All the otters don't understand me"
"We might make you bother"
"We might make you bother"
To shift a bit
We have some good friends in a development here trying to get a development house finished. .just spent their first night in it in fact. All the tiling in their house shows really poor workmanship.
They are using those big tiles and dozens of them have to be taken up and relaid because the tilers didnt know what they were doing. (no "bedding" under the corners, large air pockets underneath, doomed to break with one heavy step) I dont think these tiles can be "taken up" and reused either so the expense to the builder will be huge.
I stood on one myself and you can see the corner of the tile move and the grouting popping out if you push on it.
My point is. .yesterday, the job foreman was teaching two workers how to grout tile while my friend watched them do it badly and incorrectly. ( I think she eventually got involved in showing them how to do it right!) He was training these workers on the spot. Wonder how much of this goes on.
There is a big difference between a construction worker and a skilled or trained construction worker after all.
They are using those big tiles and dozens of them have to be taken up and relaid because the tilers didnt know what they were doing. (no "bedding" under the corners, large air pockets underneath, doomed to break with one heavy step) I dont think these tiles can be "taken up" and reused either so the expense to the builder will be huge.
I stood on one myself and you can see the corner of the tile move and the grouting popping out if you push on it.
My point is. .yesterday, the job foreman was teaching two workers how to grout tile while my friend watched them do it badly and incorrectly. ( I think she eventually got involved in showing them how to do it right!) He was training these workers on the spot. Wonder how much of this goes on.
There is a big difference between a construction worker and a skilled or trained construction worker after all.
Avalon
splitlid
of course lead flashing is not used under ridge tiles in the u.k. lead flashing is used when tiles but up to a vertical wall. its used because a concrete plinth will crack.
as regards to roofing planks the tile size ones are available in a good quality. yes of course they cost more, but are available. good quality ones may even cost more than concrete tiles but have the advantage of light weight.
miked
of course lead flashing is not used under ridge tiles in the u.k. lead flashing is used when tiles but up to a vertical wall. its used because a concrete plinth will crack.
as regards to roofing planks the tile size ones are available in a good quality. yes of course they cost more, but are available. good quality ones may even cost more than concrete tiles but have the advantage of light weight.
miked