Code of conduct in the Hua Hin real estate market ?????

Post by **little imp** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:59 pm

from a Thai prospective, seems a good idea, there are a lot of good Thai builders with good reputaions who would surely join.

but the assoc or what ever title it has has to be clear. with simple rules, in black and white.

has to include agents, developers, project owners. lawyers. police and municipality & land department.( last 3 in an volunteer role)

with living in HH, I see some problems.

most of the so called lawyers in HH are not registered lawyers. and work in the pockets of developers.

agents only selling developments with the highest commision. and stealing customers from each other.(we see many cases of agents keeping deposits and payments for long periods)
In Bangkok, a good agent does not touch 1 baht in money only the documents till the property is transfered, then the 3% is paid not like here agents wanting 5% to 15% plus.

WARNING to FARANGS, most of your houses are built to tessabaan plans, not designed by super duper architect u never seen, see many developers putting there logo over tessabaan plans and charging 40k to 100k plus for a plan,
just go to second floor it has hundreds of free building plans with detailed list of materials. plus the tessabaan cant refuse building permission on there own plans.!!

If you need building supplies in quantity, order from bangkok 50% cheaper even with the transport costs, that is what most builders shops do here anyway.

also you cant buy most materials on tessabaan plans in bangkok anyway.

from experience. Electric mains cables in HH, mostly from china, had to bring myself from BKK. (pay more but who wants wire to melt in the wall)

roofing steel, 150% more expensive here, and rolled too thin.

roof tiles -low quality here, 2 yrs later they will act like sponges.

after all, this will give HH a good name, and benefit us all "

Post by **heretostay** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:11 pm

could be run like the "CITIZENS ADVICE" in the UK, all parties have to register, but anyone with a court case or dispute against them, is black listed.

municipality can post list of suggested people to use, maybe a flyer to advertise in hotels and restaurants.

agree with little imp, need a good clear out in HH, of developers, agents lawyers etc

why these people think this is a get rich quick town,

eventually the past will catch them up, or they will rip off the wrong person,

remember one got shot last year for ripping his Thai partner off

before it was buyer beware, NOW DEVELOPS AND AGENTS BEWARE.

THE PEOPLE FIGHT BACK

Super Joe · Post by **Super Joe** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:29 pm

The 'body' should be completely independent and as someone above said attended by all agents and developers

So far this is some of the people who have been apparently stated as being involved, this list maybe wrong or these people not end up being involved:
Hua Hin District Chief Officer – Help set up/run the body.
Provincial Court Conciliator Member - Help set up/run the body.
Several Hua Hin Government Institutions (Including Land Office) - Assist as advisors.
Provincial Chief State Attorney - Assist as adviser.
The Chief Conciliator - Assist as adviser.
Local Real Estate Agents, Developers and Buyers - Assist as advisors.
Deputy Commander of Provincial Police – Consultant to the body.
Hua Hin Police Station Superintendent - Consultant to the body.
Appointed by the above will be Lawyers, Architects and Engineers.

Don't know who'll be doing the day-to-day running and control of it.

SJ

Post by **sandman67** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:40 pm

JW (via Buksi)

I think the problem you talked about/flagged up was who would be the "leader" or head up the organisation. A board would be less prone to potential corruption than 1 man in charge.

Simple answer is elections with each member casting one vote. There are a lot more reputable developers than disreputable ones in town, so it will be up to the reputable ones to make sure that the candidates fielded for board positions are reputable and get voted for.

The problem of course is making sure that the elections dont get all Thai and votes get bought....(bet they will cost more than 100bht tho).

Maybe when writing up the charter you could put into the section covering election processes that any member with "outstanding substantial complaints" or court cases against them is excluded from running for elections to the board.....that should exclude certain people we know of from running.

5 minutes research on the net snagged me 2 Codes of Practice that may come in useful.....

1) UK : Code of Practice for Residential Estate Agents (Oct 2006)
2) Australia (Queensland) - Property Agents and Motor Dealers
(Property Developer Practice Code of
Conduct) Regulation 2001

you could use these as starting points for your own charter.

If anyone wants copies of the PDFs PM me with an email address and Ill send em out to you.

Anyway

my view is this will do some good if run well, so good luck to you and please sort this situation here out of you can

Post by **Jockey** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:54 pm

I'm reading this thread with interest and I can see already there seems to be two camps developing with two different visions of how this will pan out. There is Super Joe's posts explaining who the people were and are already involved in a recent meeting and while these people have clout, I have serious doubts they will ever become the "peoples champions".

Then there was the excellent posts by WL and Buksida, both of which I fully agree with.

Sandman 67 - Your never going to get elections if the people Super Joe listed are running it. They are already elected or are in positions of power.

Important Question to ask...
Is this a Ferang initiative, and if so, it should be Ferang run, to protect fellow Ferangs, hopefully approved by Thai government officials. IMO - No Estate Agent or Developer should be allowed on the "Board" or "Committee" or "Whatever it will be called" If that happens it will lose credibility right away.

I will continue to view this thread and take in the different ideas before coming back with more of my thoughts, but heres what I'm thinking. In summary:
I am very skeptical of the people involved in the last meeting (self appointed people who have no record of helping Ferangs up till now)

I agree with the "other" camp if what they envisage is an elected committee run by ferangs for ferangs with Thai official backing - and no agents or developers on the committee (but can act as advisors if required).

So far very interesting ..... but?

Super Joe · Post by **Super Joe** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:39 pm

Just spoke to one of the people putting it together and the latest is:

1. Draft guidelines/regulations should be finished in about 2 weeks.
2. There will be no farangs, developers, real estate agents on the committee. They have only been used for input on how things should be done.
3. The committee will only contain people who have not been involved with the local property market to date.
4. Head of committee will be the Architect/Chief Engineer who does all the Royal's work. He only works for them.
5. Members of the committee will comprise of local authority officials (land office and the like) and 'highly-rated' Lawyers, Architects, Engineers from Bangkok.

SJ

Post by **PKBCXKT** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:50 pm

I am extremely pleased with the responses and suggestions which came back till now. I now really think that we do have a good chance to get that thing off the ground.

Let me get back to the response from "splitlid" regarding building regulations. We are already in the process of obtaining those, the government one, which is the minimum standard to be achieved up to ISO 13.... something which apparently is the highest standard. We are also trying to get some others inbetween. Once those are obtained it would be easy to categorize developers as per these standards and put it in a rating say A-D or something similar.

I am also very pleased with the fact that several comments asking for a strong body who also can act and enforce things rather than a discussion club.

I also fully agree with the comment that by no means this body should be run by local officials, however they will have to be involved in some way.
In which way has to be decided.

One thing I want to make very clear to everybody, which is, that even we had meetings inbetween and tried to get the motion going, we have no whatsoever intention to be involved in running whatever body will come out of this. We only want to be involved in setting up the rules and regulations and that's it.

I fully agree that afterwards, once the guidelines and rules are set up and agreed to by all the members the running of this body has to be done by absolutely neutrual persons, may be even not living in Hua Hin, but being of high respect to everybody. I think one member each on the board should represent the developer/builder/agent side, say on a 6 month rotational basis, or can be yearly as well. But that should only be advisory and not executively.

I cannot agree on one posting that this body is Farang for Farang, I think we have to deeply involve the Thai side of developers and builder as well, otherwise, where is the balance and how can we get provincial support??

By the way, I also think that we should not only put rules on developers but also agents, and these rules have to be strict as well, and the participating agents should have to agree being checked periodically by the executive board, whoever that might be. Any suggestions as to what the rules for the agents should be???

I think the one posting mentioning that it would be a huge disadvantage not being a member of this body has to be our longterm goal to achieve!

I also liked the one posting saying basically that it is also the buyers resposibility to check reliable sources to buy from. That get to the other point of, once set, up promoting this new entity so that basically everybody coming to Hua Hin knows about it.

The one problem which was adressed was a registered lawyer here. We do need one involved in that new entity. Does anybody have any suggestions as to lawyers here in Hua Hin? It would be great as we don't.

regards, pk

Post by **Sakura** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:55 pm

JW wrote:I think that if the core agents in Hua Hin got together on a monthly basis to share info regarding experiences with developers/lawyers we could all make sure our clients are not compromised.

I have been speaking to several local developers and agencies, they are looking for opportunities to exchange opinions face to face with each other. Despite recent some horror stories, majorities are trying hard to best serve customers, understanding reputation is everything in this business.

Some media are heavily involved in recent scam stories, so I would prefer someone neutral should organize such get togehter.

Post by **Jockey** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:33 pm

Superjoe wrote "There will be no farangs, developers, real estate agents on the committee. They have only been used for input on how things should be done. "

PKBCXKT wrote "I fully agree that afterwards, once the guidelines and rules are set up and agreed to by all the members the running of this body has to be done by absolutely neutrual persons, may be even not living in Hua Hin, but being of high respect to everybody"

Buksida wtote "What it should definitely not be though is managed or operated by local 'officials' that are prone to unethical methods of persuasion and are selective with their assistance in disputes. It will totally negate the entire concept and cause more problems"

Sandman67 wrote "Simple answer is elections with each member casting one vote. There are a lot more reputable developers than disreputable ones in town, so it will be up to the reputable ones to make sure that the candidates fielded for board positions are reputable and get voted for. "

JW wrote "I think that if the core agents in Hua Hin got together on a monthly basis to share info regarding experiences with developers/lawyers we could all make sure our clients are not compromised. "

So Superjoe thinks there will be no Farangs in the 'committee', PKBCXKT thinks members of the 'committee' will be 'neutral persons', Buksida thinks it should not be run by local officials, while Superjoe says it will be only local officials who run it, Sandman67 thinks there should be elections by developers to elect the 'committee' and JW thinks that "core agents" should meet up monthly.

I think I can see where this is going (my money's on SJ's version) and its a very dangerous road. The local officials will be rubbing their hands in anticipation and a couple of Farang hangers on will once again become even more powerful. Sorry for sounding negative. I'm all for the good intent of all the posters, but its easy to see where this is going. Remember the glee when it was announced local officials were going to listen to property complaints? Where did that lead to and who benefited? Groundhog day?

Post by **PKBCXKT** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:40 pm

Jockey, extremely good reply I think. That is why the body should be chaired by some high level and accepted and reputable persons who can keep the local municipality and the agents/developer under control.

Super Joe · Post by **Super Joe** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:46 pm

while Superjoe says it will be only local officials who run it

No, I said:
"Head of committee will be the Architect/Chief Engineer who does all the Royal's work"
"Members of the committee will comprise of local authority officials (land office and the like) and 'highly-rated' Lawyers, Architects, Engineers from Bangkok"

The chief man is not a local official.
Some of the members are local officials.
Some of the members are from Bangkok.
I would have said that was the opposite of a 'dangerous road' and good for the buyers.

SJ

Post by **buksida** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:52 pm

If whatever is proceeding is anything to do with the person that tried to start something similar a couple of years ago, he is supported by a different 'newspaper' this time, and its already doomed to fail for the reasons I pointed out on my first post in this thread.

Oh well, we always had the hope and Sherwood Forest is probably looking forward to the new 'help selective aliens programme'

Post by **Jockey** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:56 pm

SJ - we can see what you wrote which was:

So far this is some of the people who have been apparently stated as being involved, this list maybe wrong or these people not end up being involved:
Hua Hin District Chief Officer – Help set up/run the body.
Provincial Court Conciliator Member - Help set up/run the body.
Several Hua Hin Government Institutions (Including Land Office) - Assist as advisors.
Provincial Chief State Attorney - Assist as adviser.
The Chief Conciliator - Assist as adviser.
Local Real Estate Agents, Developers and Buyers - Assist as advisors.
Deputy Commander of Provincial Police – Consultant to the body.
Hua Hin Police Station Superintendent - Consultant to the body.
Appointed by the above will be Lawyers, Architects and Engineers.

Don't know who'll be doing the day-to-day running and control of it.

Perhaps your last line "Don't know who'll be doing the day-to-day running and control of it." is the most pertinant, but the chief of Ladbrokes just might make one of Robin Hood's merry men odds on favourite! No?

Super Joe · Post by **Super Joe** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:07 pm

Sorry Jockey, you read the wrong post.
There's one after that, where I pointed out who was actually going to run it, according to the people setting it up.

I wrote:

Just spoke to one of the people putting it together and the latest is:
1. Draft guidelines/regulations should be finished in about 2 weeks.
2. There will be no farangs, developers, real estate agents on the committee. They have only been used for input on how things should be done.
3. The committee will only contain people who have not been involved with the local property market to date.
4. Head of committee will be the Architect/Chief Engineer who does all the Royal's work. He only works for them.
5. Members of the committee will comprise of local authority officials (land office and the like) and 'highly-rated' Lawyers, Architects, Engineers from Bangkok.

Does that make you feel a bit more comfortable with the make-up of it ? It did me, especially with who the head of the committee will be.

Cheers,

SJ

Post by **PKBCXKT** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:11 pm

Buksida,

I have no clue what happened a couple of years ago as we were not here, however I can guess. If my guess is right, no involvement.

Please all understand, we have to get it right this time in all of our interest.
These old stories have to die out and they will, as I do not think that any of those will speak up and defend themselves for where is no defense.

pk