Filipino Teachers

[dtaai-maai]

I'd rather have a sincere and qualified Filipino teaching my kids English than either a random backpacker

Surely those days are pretty much gone? With the crackdown on foreign teachers, aren't they legally required to have a wp (meaning they MUST have a degree), TEFL certificate etc? I've heard the Thai authorities now do background checks on teachers' degrees now, meaning a KSR special just won't wash.
Of course, a degree doth not a teacher make - but I'd imagine it cuts out the 'random backpackers'.

As for 'qualified', what does that mean? Both of my live in maids in HK had degrees from Filipino Unis. I wouldn't have put their language skills anywhere near the level I would think required for teaching, though.

When Thai kids are taught to put the vocabulary they are spoonfed into comprehensible sentences and are able to have a simple conversation, then you can start worrying about grammar and different accents.

In many Thai schools, that isn't an issue. They are taught English by Thais who can't string an English sentence together, either.
But, sorry, dtaii-mai, I do worry about grammar and how my son speaks. Now his English is becoming fluent, I correct him all the time. Why settle for 'same-same' English, when he has the ability & the potential to speak fluently & correctly? If a child can learn the correct way, they should be taught the correct way, IMO.

Read my post again, Dawn - the section of your post in bold is exactly the point I was making. Your lad is the fortunate exception, as I know well, and he needs good grammar, but most Thai kids in bog standard schools without the benefit of a farang parent need to learn to speak basic English before they need to worry about grammar.

[johnnyk]

How can one speak a sentence and hope to be understood without grammar?
Grammar is the bedrock. Subject, verb, object, parts of speech are absolutely essential, otherwise its gibberish.
There are still lots of backpacker types "teaching". Most of the laqnguage "academies" don't bother to get WPs for them, it's too much bother for someone who may not stick around. Neither do they bother with proper degrees and certs.
Caucasian? Good.
You can stand up? Better.
Can speak Ingrit? OK, job for you.

[dtaai-maai]

How can one speak a sentence and hope to be understood without grammar?
Grammar is the bedrock. Subject, verb, object, parts of speech are absolutely essential, otherwise its gibberish.
There are still lots of backpacker types "teaching". Most of the laqnguage "academies" don't bother to get WPs for them, it's too much bother for someone who may not stick around. Neither do they bother with proper degrees and certs.
Caucasian? Good.
You can stand up? Better.
Can speak Ingrit? OK, job for you.

I'm not quite sure what point you're making here, Johnny. Did your parents teach you how to speak, did they teach you grammar, or did you just learn by listening, repeating, making mistakes and being corrected? How good was your grammar when you were 2, 3 or 4 years old? How much did you know about grammar when you were 10 or 11? How much do most know at the age of 30+? Have a look around this or any other forum and then talk to me about the importance of grammar. Most of the non-native English speakers write better English than the Brits/US/etc.

[Super Joe]

Some adults can not even spell grammer, let alone apply it properly!!

SJ

[dtaai-maai]

Dawn, just to clarify what I said earlier, most of the 18-22 year old students I teach don't speak English as well as your son (who is what, 8? 9?) - oh for the chance to be the local equivalent of Miss Jean Brodie (well, maybe Monsieur Jean Brodie...). I hope that puts things into perspective.

[johnnyk]

How can one speak a sentence and hope to be understood without grammar?
Grammar is the bedrock. Subject, verb, object, parts of speech are absolutely essential, otherwise its gibberish.
There are still lots of backpacker types "teaching". Most of the laqnguage "academies" don't bother to get WPs for them, it's too much bother for someone who may not stick around. Neither do they bother with proper degrees and certs.
Caucasian? Good.
You can stand up? Better.
Can speak Ingrit? OK, job for you.

I'm not quite sure what point you're making here, Johnny. Did your parents teach you how to speak, did they teach you grammar, or did you just learn by listening, repeating, making mistakes and being corrected? How good was your grammar when you were 2, 3 or 4 years old? How much did you know about grammar when you were 10 or 11? How much do most know at the age of 30+? Have a look around this or any other forum and then talk to me about the importance of grammar. Most of the non-native English speakers write better English than the Brits/US/etc.

I learned from immersion in my native culture. Seeing as you asked about my grammar, if I may say so it has always been close to perfect (many tears as a professional speechwriter, editor and teacher).
For those learning a language not their own, grammar is essential otherwise its Lewis Carroll time. As an example, my 2nd language is French and if I didn't have the grammar in decent shape I woud not be understood nor would I understand correctly.

[Spitfire]

Sorry to go back on a point but would like to mention something about Dawn's point about the days of 'backpacker' teachers with KSR degrees are over.

Not so sure about that, if you ever meet some(not all) agency teachers from BKK with a 'degree' in education that can't string a sentence together, hhmmmmmmm, then you may re-oppraise your postition. Yes, it has got much stricter in the recent past but if you go away from the big cities and into the provinces then they are still around. Think things are still a bit lax there as it's hard to attract any teachers at all to some areas.

Don't see them in BKK and probably not in HH, as said by someone else on the forum 'you can't even fart there' without everything being in order, it's a no-no there, but if you head out of those sort of places then you'll see them.

I think the problem is with how the MoE and the schools co-operate with eachother. What I understand to be the case is that it is up to the school or university to check the degree, which is not an easy process(due to the data protection laws in the west).

The work permit is issued by the Ministery of Labour, so they don't check. If you need a teachers license then the MoE will check it then, but you don't need a teachers license if you work at a university or higher education college, for now. It may also depend on how the place you work for describes you as, teacher, consultant, alien instructor, been described as all of those at some point.

As I'm sure many know, the MoE is going crazy about the teachers license at the moment, demanding that everyone go on a Thai cultural awareness course, which you have to pay for, teachers must have 25 hours of 'developement' per year, whatever that means. Heard all sorts of strange stories about that course. However, as I work at a university, I am not required to attend, so to be honest, I don't have any contact with the MoE at all.

I may be wrong about some of the above, but that's my current understanding of it, and might soon be stood corrected, feel free.

[DawnHRD]

Thanks for the clarification, DM & Spitfire. I probably am mistaken, having taken my info from a couple of forums (with teaching areas) I participate in & a few talks/meetings with people who happen to be teaching out here & were telling me of the difficulties & the hoops they have to jump through.
No experience myself, though - so I'll definitely bow to your collective experience & knowledge.

[Spitfire]

To be honest with you Dawn, I don't think the Thais know what's going on half the time with what supposed to be happening. If something doesn't suit a school or university, then there are plenty of ways round it for them. Sure, a lot of this stuff must be decided locally, based on what can be gotten away with, who knows who and what government position they hold, what position the director of the school holds locally(buddies with governor or not) . I'm sure it's nothing new to you to suggest that 'so long as it looks like an orange, then it is one'.

Forgive me all if I'm being too cynical here.

[dtaai-maai]

I learned from immersion in my native culture. Seeing as you asked about my grammar, if I may say so it has always been close to perfect (many tears as a professional speechwriter, editor and teacher).
For those learning a language not their own, grammar is essential otherwise its Lewis Carroll time. As an example, my 2nd language is French and if I didn't have the grammar in decent shape I woud not be understood nor would I understand correctly.

Funny you should say that, johnny, as French happens to be the nearest thing I have to a second language. But for all the grammar I'd learned at school, it didn't truly become that until I'd lived there for a few years. I wasn't questioning your obvious mastery of English grammar, just how you learned to speak the bloody language! And it wasn't from a text book on English grammar.

Depending on whom you wrote speeches for, I can imagine it might have been worth a few tears...

[johnnyk]

Depending on whom you wrote speeches for, I can imagine it might have been worth a few tears...

Indeed, the general directive from the politicos was, "I have to speak for 20 minutes but I don't want to say anything."
In my mind, I'd say, "No worries, you never had a farkin' thought in your life anyway!"

[Superman]

Yes I agree that accent is not one of the key factors in learning languages!

The Filipinos are not "Native English speakers" but MOST of them know the correct spelling of words in English (apart from colour/color, neighbour/neighbor..etc.. as Filipino English is more of American) unlike MOST of "Native English speakers" who CANNOT even spell simple words..what a shame!Shame on you "Native English speakers" who don't know correct spelling of your OWN language! MOST of you BOUGHT your DIPLOMAS, DEGREES or CERTIFICATES anyway!

The Filipino teachers in Thailand are hard workers! DO NOT GENERALISE them.

On the other hand.I completely understand what others saying about Filipinos teaching English.Of course you would rather learn Japanese with a Japanese teacher than a Swedish who can speak Japanese! But its case to case basis.
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[buksida]

Welcome to the board Superman, what part of the Phils are you from? Mindoro rocks, was there a few months ago!

[Superman]

Thanks for the welcome buksida. :

I come from a land where democracy and freedom speak!!! A land "Dear and Holy" and "Cradle of Noble Heroes"

[Super Joe]

Land of the morning, welcome sir kumusta ka ?

SJ