60 years ahead or behind?

[Spitfire]

OK ladies and gentlemen, I would like to run something past you all that occurred to me today, might be OK or not, but would be interested to know what you all think as many have good input on these things.

I was thinking about the general situation in LOS and thought that maybe they are just 60 years behind places like Europe. OK, that sounds a bit patronising, but let me go through the thought patterns first.

30-35 years ago there was very little of what we see today, a good example of that is that Pattaya was just an indescript fishing village then. When I speak to the 'really old boys' who have been here since then in many places I have been lucky enough to stay in, they say that when you left the main cities in the 70's, the women didn't even wear shirts and would say can you bring me some soap back from the base. Now, the same guys say that the girls all want cars, gold and houses.

Back to the topic point, you all know about the images of when George abdicated because of Mrs Simpson and there were people in piccadilly with signs saying 'Stand by you know who'. We had all of this sort of stuff too, singing national anthems in cinemas, the family was number 1, poor levels of education, housing, economy after WW2 etc.

Another example is that most of us know that Charles Boothe proposed the NHS in the UK a long time ago, didn't really get going till much later, but here we see the Thais sorting it out only five years ago, not a bad thing, good for the Thais, but surely you see the parallels.

Many people are surpised by the way things are in places such as these, but modernisation has happened so quick that they are trying to deal with it in half or less of the time we did.

My wife's grandfather remembers when the Japanese were here, these guys are still around, and just motions about how strange it is when it comes to how things are now.

I'm not saying that we got it totally right, maybe we have something to learn from countries that are dealing with this now in such a short space of time.

Moderisation always has a conflict with traditional values, but it is interesting to see how they deal with it.

To be honest, they have not done too bad, our countries had much longer, IMHO.

Would be interested to know what people think, or whether they have things to add as I'm sure I have not covered everything here.



Edited for some spelling

[Vital Spark]

We (Parahandy and I) have often discussed this same topic.

Many of the daily life activities we see in our village reflect life in England 60 years ago. OK, it's before my time but I've listened to my mother talking about her childhood. Shopping is done on a daily basis - you buy what you want for your meal for the evening. Food is also not wasted: chicken carcases are boiled for stock, every part of the killed chicken is either eaten or boiled for stock. Pieces of wood, metal or anything broken are re-used and re-modelled to create something new, or just put aside to repair something that's broken. I'm talking about the locals the same age as me. The younger generation, on the other hand, are being catapulted, due to the media mainly, into the Western style of living of the 21st century.

The changes that we've seen in Thailand in the last 11 years living here (and almost 15 years since we first started visiting) are worrying. They seem to be desperately trying to catch up with the West. Unfortunately they're: 1) not learning from the mistakes that we made; and 2) trying to run before they can walk.

I love the ideals of the mid-20th century, and the evolution of a country and it's culture should be a gradual process. It's all moving too quickly here, and, I fear, in the wrong direction.

Maybe it's just me getting older.

VS

[MrPlum]

I expect the youngsters, unwilling to work the farms, will be seduced into the the cities and villages will become old people's homes, while retiring foreigners move into the most attractive areas, to escape the cities.

[big jimmy]

A good posting so far..my feelings are that the world has come to far too quickly since the 50's..before the two world wars the world moved slowly...life was hard for all ..they had nothing and expected little from life except the joy of family..the baby boomers moved life forward at a fast pace and when I was young, telephones , television and cars were a luxury...now they are an accepted way of life not a luxury...when I was young we had a party line ( shared telephone line with someone..we didn't know who ) but if they were on the line we couldn't use the phone..television was black and white..and only two channels..we were lucky..we had a car..an old anglia ( brits will know that ) top speed 40 but never mind...we should all be thankfull for we have now...life is better but more stressfull..I'm glad I am not 18 any more..I couldn't go through it all again...

[HHTel]

I was first in Pattaya in 1965. There was nothing much more than a beach road. It was a great place. Look what happened. The US was here in BKK in great numbers billeted in the best hotel and running their own clubs. That was the beginning of the end of 'Old Siam'.

I loved the name of the old currency before it was renamed to the baht. It was funny when asking how much something was to get the answer "10 Tickels".

If they'd kept the name, can you immagine the local bar scene.

"How much did she want?". "Just a 1000 tickels!"

[richard]

Theme of my book 'cradle to hammock, full circle'

When de -stessing in my hammock in Khon Kaen I see parallels from my youth in Yorkshire 58 years ago

Shame but is so called progress

China will sort it

[margaretcarnes]

Good post Spitfire. Part of the charm of LOS for me was the very fact that it was reminiscent of my childhood as a 'baby boomer'
I think it's inevitable though that Thailand is trying to catch up too quickly, given the effects of media and technology (not to mention GI's and expats!)
We can't stop the changes. Only hope that after the novelty wears off people will eventually start to see the value of keeping some of their old ways. It might take years. Meanwhile VS rest assured - some of us do still shop every day and boil chicken carcases! (Well - bang them in the slow cooker. Same same.)

[Spitfire]

I know this post is a bit belated, but just wanted to give people a chance to answer.

Good posts Mags, VS and everyone, glad others have noticed.

HHTel, quality, it would be chaos if the currency was still called 'Tickels', maybe that was why they changed it, because they found out what it meant in English, it would be the butt of too many jokes.

richard, I can just imagine you lolling around in a hammock enjoying the easy life.

I posted this for the reasons said in the OP, but another one was that I was in the main mall in Korat one time on a Saturday and when I parked the pickup there was a classic two door Toyota Vigo with the married couple in the seats at the front, and in the back was the Grandma, Grandpa, nephews, all and sundry.

Saw them later and they were just walking around stunned, starring at the bright lights and enjoying the air-con, wondering what 'Jaspal' meant.

Then it was off to the food court for some Thai fast food, probably didn't spent much money, it was the new style of 'Day-out'.

Grandma and Gandpa probably got home wondering what the hell had just happened, didn't believe places like that existed and thought that they should go because 'the son knows best'.

I can just imagine them getting home and saying to the person taking care of the house in the village while they were gone, 'give me the sticky rice and beef salad', 'I'm tired'.

That could be called mental cruelty in some places.

Maybe others have a different slant on this and feel free to comment.

[STEVE G]

Spitfire, I’ve often taken locals from the village up to Khorat and they hate the Mall as it’s too expensive, except for the kids who love the little amusement arcade thing at the end and the aquarium.
However what they do love is going to Big-C as they can buy stuff cheaper there than in the local town, especially kitchenware and clothing and I forget how many bicycles I’ve now carted back to the village!
They also have a bug store in the car-park which is good for snacks on the way home.

[kendo]

I loved the name of the old currency before it was renamed to the baht. It was funny when asking how much something was to get the answer "10 Tickels".

If they'd kept the name, can you immagine the local bar scene.

"How much did she want?". "Just a 1000 tickels!"

That's an absolute gem HHTel, it put a smile on my face, that would have been a good one to put on my thread, Did You Know.

Spitfire, i think change around the world is so fast these days why? is it because of the internet, world economys, conflicts, greed.

I know one thing i feel a lot more free in Thailand than i do in the U.k, i offen say to my friends just imagine what's the U.k going to be like in another 30 years it's allready going down the pan, it's not that safe anymore, it's expensive, it's loosing it's identity, taxed heavily, and the weather is shite, living here feels like a real rat race and far to crowded.

Kendo

[Guess]

A good thread, there have been many good points made. I have thought about it but do not have any experience in non-western countries except for Malaysia and Singapore so I cannot make comparisons easily.

Thailand is of course unique in the region as being the only country not to be colonised. This has had a marked effect on "progress", some good and some not so good.

I think in Thailand's case, that the growth has been exacerbated by the meteoric rise in technology and the establishment of the global economy.

Thailand suddenly found themselves as a country in which western countries were happy to invest in technical production.

Thailand's isolationist policy kept them with an agricultural based economy right up until after the Second World War.

This changed rapidly with the presence of the British & French neighbours and the later arrival of the US. 200 years of development needed to be crammed in to about 50, years to allow Thailand to compete with other countries in the region.

No sooner than this westernisation revolution completed, the Hi Tech revolution started. The global economy allowed Thailand to earn real foreign currency and of course the demands were for western goods and lifestyles.

Much as I think many of us and many Thais would like to see the charm of Thailand survive as it did for 150 years, the reality is that it is over.

In the modern world it is go with the flow or sink.

As for putting a number of years on the difference between Thailand and the west, that depends upon which area you talk about. Business, local government, infrastructure, education and banking are way behind. Tourism, Air Travel, Health care and housing are very close to the west already.

However they are catching up and it is only a matter of time before Thailand becomes like Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia and Singapore.

Quality of Life? Now where does that fit into the equation.

[deepee]

Spitfire ,
We were down at the new Markets a few days back with an 80 year old Thai aunt in tow. Spent ages and ages wandering around and decided to rest the poor old girl thinking that this must be a real spin out for her.

We sat down in the main cafe area ,went thru that routine of having to purchase those food coupons and ordered up for all( the food was crap)And as we sat there I was looking around thinking just what you are on about ,how rapidly change has run over the locals and what of the future, and then a mobile rang and old aunt dug into her bag and casualy answered her call from her son in Italy.
Maybe change has been so swift that most Thais have not had time to dwell on it yet.