UK State Pension

[HHTel]

For those UK expats that are not yet drawing a UK state pension yet, have you taken note of the changes starting April 2010?

Currently, anyone drawing a state pension can claim 60% for their dependent (comes to around 42,000 baht per month). When the old fella dies, the wife continues drawing a widow's pension for the rest of her life.

That all changes in 2010. If eligible after that time, you can only draw a single man's pension (nothing for the dependent) and your pension dies with you. I believe there's a one-off widow's payment but no ongoing pension!

I never thought I'd be moaning that I'm too young! 9 months to be precise. I draw my pension at the end of 2010 and I'll be around 20,000 baht a month worse off than I expected and no comfort for my wife after I'm dead.

I know that the UK government had to do something about state pensions with the growing size of the older generation which are living longer. Never thought they would trim it in one foul swoop.

Oh what a difference a day makes!

[Super Joe]

Sorry to hear that, the average man gets shafted AGAIN.

SJ

[Randy Cornhole]

I've got about 20 years to go so God only knows what will be around then? Prob no pension at all. All the money the government took off me over the years will go towards George William's new car!! (George Williams will be the British PM in 2028 by the way)

[margaretcarnes]

Hi Tel, yes this ties in with changes underway to womens' pensions. From 2010 to 2015 the age at which (British) women can claim their pension increases year by year from 60 to 65.
Couples pensions will be a thing of the past (and already are to a large extent, since most Brit women have now built up their own pension entitlements through work and/or home responsibilities.)
But the proposals you have seen clearly descriminate against the wives of expats, since those wives have never paid NI conts.
I'll try to get more info. Meanwhile it might be worth expats in your situation getting together to make a case against HMG.
BTW the womens pension change to age 65 has in fact been on the books since Thatchers time.
Also pending are radical changes to Incapacity Benefit and Disability Living Allowance this October. Advisors still haven't received details of the new regime, but as soon as I have definite info I'll post.

[margaretcarnes]

Hi Tel - done a bit more digging but I'm still not clear where the info has come from on the change to dependant addition from 2010.
What I HAVE found is the following -

'The descriminatory rules about increases to a Category A retirement pension for a dependant adult are to be abolished from 6.4.10'
(Source - Child Poverty Action Group)
But this change appears to be intended to correct age related descrimination, and there is no mention of any change relating to foreign wives living abroad.

Details of proposed changes can be found on www.thepensionservice.gov.uk but not in great detail.

What IS interesting is that there will no longer be a 5 year limit on deferring the state pension, and the benefit of deferring increases to 10% for every year deferred. This might help some expats whose final pension will be frozen due to living abroad.

Terminology is always a problem where state benefits are concerned. Just to clarify some relevant to pensions -
Additional State Pension applies to Category A pensions, ie the claimant only.
Adult Dependant Increase is the extra (currently) added to a category A pension for a dependant under 60, and is about £60 a week at the moment.
Category B is the spouses pension based on the main Cat A, and which replaces the adult dependant increase when the spouse turns 60. ( I suspect this is where the 'descriminatory' correction mentioned above comes in.)

Confused? Well I'll do some more research. Meanwhile would be interested to know where the info in your OP came from. But Tel or anyone else concerned about this is welcome to pm me, as pension details vary according to circumstances and as such are confidential.

[margaretcarnes]

I've pm'd HHTel, but just to keep this topic up to date - am now waiting for replies from 2 sources of sound information here on the proposed changes.
Hope to have more info within the week.

[margaretcarnes]

The OP is correct. As HHTel said the Adult Dependant Addition to the full State Pension is scrapped from April 2010.

As I suspected it ties in with the UK Pension Credit system, which came in about 6 years ago. This allows the first retiree of a couple to claim a topup of Pension Credit even if the partner is still under pension age. Not much use to expats, as Pension Credit is means tested, and works in a similar way to Income Support so can't be claimed while living aboad.

For anyone receiving their State Pension before the change in April 2010, they will continue to get the Adult Dependant Addition BUT ONLY UNTIL 2020 AT THE LATEST, when it stops altogether.

On the plus side, the number of qualifying years needed for a full pension reduces to 30 from April 2010, which might benefit some expats.
The annual increases also change, and will be calculated in line with earnings, rather than retail prices. This is expected to produce higher annual increases but is no help to expats as the annual increases are frozen anyway.

Overall I can't now see a case for descrimination, since a case would be against the regulations on a means tested benefit, ie Pension Credit, and the actual State Pension changes apply across the board.
Sorry guys - make of it what you will.

[sam]

Hi Margret, is it not discrimination against those of us who chose to live outside Europe because I believe you still get increases and fuel payments etc if you move to Spain/Portugal/France etc. Or have I got that wrong?

[Spitfire]

Don't think there will be anything left for us people aged about 40 by the time we get to retirement in 25 years, and that's if they have not raised the age of retirement to 75 by then.

[sargeant]

spitfire if you are over here in LOS and only 40 unless you are paying national insurance i am not so sure you would get a pension anyway maybe mags could clarify that

[Spitfire]

Well Sarge, I'm on the private pension, I know I'm a kid regarding this, but I just got sick of the Bul****t back home, you're right, but you will find more and more guys like me doing a disappearing act from the 'perfect west', I'm sure you've notice the population increase.

I work, so I am not constricted by the new national insurance rules, so long as you can prove that you have still being working, then you are OK, but I've heard scary stories about this one. I might be wrong but they might have shifted the goal posts on this one.

Those that are more informed, let us know the deal.

Edited for spelling

[margaretcarnes]

Hi Sam - good point about winter fuel allowances in the EU. Child benefit is certainly payable to any EU national in any EU country (they can chose to have child ben paid at whichever countries rate is the highest.) But you've just opened a can of worms with the winter fuel thing.
It may be that some expats within the EU claim it illegally (as has happened with Expats in LOS.) Will check.

But re the descrimination - you said yourself people 'who CHOSE' - and thats the key. People who chose to live in countries where certain UK benefits are not paid are actually opting out of the system by choice.

Spitfire - as Sarge says at the tender age of 40 you won't have even got the 30 years contributions in for full state pension. But at least you have youth on your side!

Keep believin guys.

[Spitfire]

Cheers Mags, as usual, always hitting the nail on the head. I know it might sound strange, but some of us, and increasingly more and more of us, are fleeing to sunny places like this because we've had enough and there's not much future with the deal back home.

I have not been back for a while(8 years), but the guys that have turned up recently or live there and flip back and forth, will be much more able than me to let us know what the real score is as they live there.

Thanks Mags, we know we can rely on you not posting silly stuff.

PS Wade in anyone who has extra info and give us the perspective from the sharp end.