Vaccines - Covid 19

[Big Boy]

I love the last 2 - so if you're not on the list...........................

[Big Boy]

As we're looking at vaccine comparisons, this looks similar to the chart I saw on Thai TV this morning.

thai comparison.png (208.64 KiB) Viewed 975 times

[handdrummer]

It's impossible to find a cure for 'flu simply because it mutates every year. If it was a 'stable' virus then a cure could be found.

“We’ve managed to eradicate smallpox and have almost eradicated polio, but I don’t think this could happen with flu,” says Oxford. “Unlike the others, it’s a bird virus. We’d need to kill every migrating duck, swan and goose on the planet.”

Now unlike measles, which comes in only one form, the influenza virus comes in several forms and changes year to year. And that's why each year we're pretty much susceptible to the influenza virus that's going around. And that's why we have to get vaccinated against influenza each year in the fall. And that's the best way to protect ourselves against this very serious disease. Getting ourselves vaccinated, and getting everyone in our family vaccinated.

'flu has been around for 2,500 years.

Notice the powers that be never mention how to strengthen your immune system to ward off the flu. I've never had a flu shot and have never had a cold, much less the flu. I prefer responsibility rather than putting my health in the hands of govts. and drug companies. To each his own.

[HHTel]

I'm not sure average IQ for a country is a good indicator when we're discussing some Thai people's intelligence.

Just to clarify. IQ = Intelligence Quotient. It has nothing to do with knowledge. It's an 'ability to learn'.

An Intelligence Quotient, or IQ, is a measure of what psychologists call our “fluid and crystallized intelligence.” Put simply, an IQ test measures your reasoning and problem-solving abilities.

I was a member of a 'club' some people say was the "Bee's knees" of IQ scores. It showed me to have a high IQ but meant absolutely nothing of what I know (knowledge)

"I know nothing!" as Manuel would say. (Fawlty Towers)

[HHTel]

Notice the powers that be never mention how to strengthen your immune system to ward off the flu. I've never had a flu shot and have never had a cold, much less the flu. I prefer responsibility rather than putting my health in the hands of govts. and drug companies. To each his own.

Of course you can minimise the dangers of 'flu just as you can with Covid.

'Flu was at a low last year. That's been explained by the protections put in place against Covid. Those protections also work for 'flu.

Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system
Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:

Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying- ... une-system

[GroveHillWanderer]

Basically, it seems that whatever jab/jabs you get, you're probably going to need a booster of some sort with the ever changing variants. (Edit: and then wash, rinse and repeat every year.

Exactly what's been happening with the 'flu jab for many years. The shot is modified twice a year in advance. Much of it being guesswork when some years they guess better than other years.

Difference with the flu jabs is, I think, they're only really targeted at the elderly/vulnerable? (I've certainly never had one nor been encouraged to get one). Big Pharma are gonna have a field day with the covid jabs.

But, yes, it seems like it's gonna be exactly the same process.

I'm sorry, but you really, really can't draw parallels between the flu viruses and SARS-CoV-2, either in terms of mutagenicity or in what that means in terms of vaccines.

For a start, there isn't just one flu virus, there are many. There are four distinct types: A, B, C & D (although only A & B cause serious disease in humans). Within the A & B types, there are dozens of different strains that each require different vaccines.

This is because the flu viruses are structurally different from coronaviruses. They have 8-segmented RNA strands and are subject to both antigenic drift and a process known as reassortment, that leads to antigenic shift. Antigenic drift is what necessitates different vacccines for each strain every single year and antigenic shift is what creates new strains on a regular basis.

In fact the flu viruses mutate so quickly that the yearly flu vaccine (which by the way, actually contains 3 or 4 different vaccines in combination) is often pretty much ineffective by the end of the same flu season it was designed for.

Coronaviruses on the other hand, have single-stranded RNA, so unlike the flu viruses can't undergo reassortment and as stated in the article linked to below:

Coronaviruses are not prone to undergo antigenic drift or shift.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-scienc ... cov-2.html

So because of this, SARS-COV-2 is still (despite variants) a single virus and because of the completely different way it mutates, looks likely to remain so for some considerable time, if not indefinitely.

For instance, even with all the different variants, including the much more virulent Delta variant, the data shows that the vaccines designed for the original wild type virus from over 18 months ago, are still fairly effective. Yes, an additional booster dose may be required but it's still the same old vaccine designed 18 months ago, not a new one.

That doesn't mean SARS-CoV-2 won't eventually mutate enough to require new versions of the current vaccines at some point but that hasn't happened yet and there's no reason to believe it will require new vaccines every year as the flu viruses do, because of the basic differences in its mutagenicity outlined above.

[fft100]

As we're looking at vaccine comparisons, this looks similar to the chart I saw on Thai TV this morning.

thai comparison.png

How many days after the second or third injection was this comparison made ? We know that the antibody count reduces over time.

Research in the UK over the last few months shows, for example, that initially Pfizer has 15% more antibodies than AZ, but after 3 months the antibody count of both Pfizer and AZ is the same. It will be interesting to see the relative counts after 6 and 9 months.

In the table above was the comparison made at 1 day, week, month or 3 months ? I am very sceptical of some of those numbers until we know the injection schedule and date of comparison.

[HHTel]

I'm sorry, but you really, really can't draw parallels between the flu viruses and SARS-CoV-2, either in terms of mutagenicity or in what that means in terms of vaccines.

For a start, there isn't just one flu virus, there are many. There are four distinct types: A, B, C & D (although only A & B cause serious disease in humans). Within the A & B types, there are dozens of different strains that each require different vaccines.

This is because the flu viruses are structurally different from coronaviruses. They have 8-segmented RNA strands and are subject to both antigenic drift and a process known as reassortment, that leads to antigenic shift. Antigenic drift is what necessitates different vacccines for each strain every single year and antigenic shift is what creates new strains on a regular basis.

In fact the flu viruses mutate so quickly that the yearly flu vaccine (which by the way, actually contains 3 or 4 different vaccines in combination) is often pretty much ineffective by the end of the same flu season it was designed for.

Coronaviruses on the other hand, have single-stranded RNA, so unlike the flu viruses can't undergo reassortment and as stated in the article linked to below:


That doesn't mean SARS-CoV-2 won't eventually mutate enough to require new versions of the current vaccines at some point but that hasn't happened yet and there's no reason to believe it will require new vaccines every year as the flu viruses do, because of the basic differences in its mutagenicity outlined above.

Agreed GHW. You are correct of course. What's been said is a simple overview on the logistics to the public over the long term and not meant to be a detailed analysis of 'flu and Covid.

[HHTel]

Pfizer vaccine effectiveness declines quicker than AstraZeneca, says study

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is initially more effective against the Delta coronavirus variant than the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab, but this protection then declines at a quicker rate, new research has shown.

However, two doses of either jab still provides at least the same level of protection acquired through natural infection, and there is not yet clear evidence to suggest that the vaccines are failing to keep people infected with Delta out of hospital.

There appears to be little change in the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine three months after a second dose, according to the study. In contrast, there is a clear decline in protection provided by the Pfizer jab over this same timeframe.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... li=BBoPWjQ

The way I read this is not to say that AZ is better. Because Pfizer starts off with a higher efficacy, the reduction in protection just means that it comes down to meet the efficacy of AZ.

[berlinmichael]

A lot of people have simply not grasped the fact that pharmaceutical companies are not in business to cure people but to sell drugs. Do you really think they want to find a cure for the flu when they can sell flu vaccines year after year! Covid is just another huge business opportunity - imagine if the worlds population requires a covid booster jab every six months for the next twenty years......the pharmaceutical sector is a very cynical and commercially driven business sector.

What a patronizing post, do you really think you are smarter than us? Let's hope you learned something from Uncle Tel. Let me reiterate for you, there is no cure for flu the best that big pharma can do is guess about the next years flu strain and produce a vaccine.

I used flu as an example you patroniser - I mean really you ask the question ' do you really think you are smarter than us ?'
I worked in uk pharms for a number of years and it's only about money. Its no different from the muppets that run everything here in Thailand. I find your response offensive.....

[nanyang]

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has said that Covid booster shots are not necessary. They go on to say that doing so is ‘morally and ethically’ unnecessary.

[caller]

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has said that Covid booster shots are not necessary. They go on to say that doing so is ‘morally and ethically’ unnecessary.

Seems like many experts around the World, the ones dealing with the situation in their own Countries, have a different opinion. Trouble is, whenever the WHO pontificate like this, because of China's influence, you wonder who is behind such statements abd for what reason?

Countries will do what they think is best regardless.

[HHTel]

I used flu as an example

Then it's a very bad example which makes absolutely no sense. Therefore you must believe that pharma could develop a cure for 'flu if they weren't so greedy!

It can't!

[Scout]

I'm in agreement with 404, waiting and hoping that private hospitals more locally will be offering better choices later this year (more likely early next) for those that don't want a 14 hour round trip to Bangkok (or a night there) and then the quarantine on return.

Two days ago I registered with Med Park Hospital for a Friday appointment. They indicated I would receive a confirmation email within 24 hours and without this confirmation email I could not receive my jab. 24 hours came and went yesterday without receiving the email. Is the Med Park Hospital appointment process working for anyone else ?

Also, I see reference to a mandatory self quarantine upon return from Bangkok, can anyone confirm this requirement and maybe point me to the site where I can read up on the requirements ?

Maybe you should look on the following page as there seem to be quite a few satisfied people who went to Med Park Hospital, you might find an answer
Facebook page "Hua Hin COVID-19 Community Support"
FB link for reference: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1443114 ... ?ref=share
You can also try phoning them to this number 020233333 they are very friendly and speak good English.

I called the MedPark number listed above, navigated the intuitive menu system and connected to a fluent English speaker. He knew my name simply from my telephone call without me having to tell him anything. He walked me through the process while he confirmed my passport number, name and appointment details then sent me the email confirmation and confirmed I received it while he was on the phone. I told him I would come the following day for my 11am appointment and he told me I could come immediately if I was in town, or anytime the following day between 8am and 4pm the following day. I drove up to MedPark in Bangkok yesterday, my gps system took me directly there, parked in the underground parking of the large office building next door to MedPark and walked 100 meters to MedPark gate #4 where people were queuing. Was immediately ushered inside, vital signs taken, registration confirmed, vaccination administered, 30 day observation period, then vital signs taken one last time, then finished and back to the car. I was number 87, after arriving 2 hours after they opened at 8am. There was a steady stream of customers while I was there and judging from the queues and seating / waiting areas they were operating at about 50-60% capacity. They were very accommodating to me taking pictures of every step of the way, closeups of the vaccine vials, waiting area, etc. All and all, a very efficient, well run operation. Highly recommended !!!

[sateeb]

/\ and what vaccine did you opt for?