lindosfan1 wrote:mr plum wrote
Studies are not carried out on natural products since they can't be patented
You continually are promoting your natural products whilst not knowing the effect long term or short term the have on patients. Studies are carried out with tests on drugs.
Whilst I agree the are some good natural products. There is still an element of doubt.
Doctors undergo years of training, what training have you had what qualifications have you.
Some of what you recommend is common sense but if I had a choice of a well trained doctor or yourself I am afraid you would come a poor second.
Before you say not all doctors are good nor are all the unqualified people.
Yes listen or read what mr plum says then ask your doctor what he thinks a good one will tell you if it is ok.
Some good natural products? So it's okay to mention them then? I'm glad we got that sorted out.
After your uncivilized and uncalled for abuse of me using the pm system, I doubt if you are capable of a balanced discussion on this. Your overall lack of knowledge and refusal to acknowledge responses I have made to you previously make you a very difficult person to debate with. It's as if you are stuck with this idea that I'm a dangerous man and other members need to be warned or protected. I'm not sure why you feel you are the man for the job when you have shown no signs of any medical knowledge, inclination to research, don't provide any sources, refuse to acknowledge answers and display obvious hostility.
I'm not 'a poor second' to anyone. I'm 'a bug to be squashed', remember? Please keep your rude prejudice to yourself.
The statement you highlighted (bold would have been sufficient) is a general comment. It's far more complicated than that and I've already covered some aspects of it elsewhere. Since you habitually ignore my answers to you, you'll understand my reluctance to waste my time again.
There are 40,000 government recognized practitioners operating in Thailand in the natural health field, using herbalism, massage, and other techniques. The Thai government are clearly happy with natural medicine.
Several members have had positive results from using Apple Cider Vinegar and said so. Others have had positive results from juice fasting (detoxes) and said so. They saw the posts, did their own research, tried it and found it worked for them. There's no guarantee, how can their be? But at least you can try some of these things without fear of side effects.
On that subject, please give me an example of anything I have mentioned on here which is harmful? When I research herbs I find studies to support their efficacy and whether they are safe. There are herbal Materia Medica online if you look for them. There is an Herbal PDR if you look for it. There is a huge wealth of knowledge on herbalism and natural healing accessible online from India, where natural medicine is not seen as competition to be crushed by profit-driven, medical cartels and racketeers.
I take the time to do the research because I often take these things myself and need to know what works. You could say I'm passionate about the subject and very much motivated by what happened within my own family. To my mind, my mother was murdered by the medical profession through ignorance and THEIR bias and I'm absolutely motivated by what happened to her. (Foolish old men, notwithstanding). The point is Mrlindosfan1, they were PROFESSIONALS and didn't have a clue. Despite the appearance of competence, since they aren't curing the sick, one might, if one wasn't religiously wedded to the idea that Doctors have all the answers, see Allopathy as 'a poor second'.
I agree that you should always consult your own doctor and I often say so but you fail to acknowledge that Doctors (for all their professionalism) are not trained in this, so how can they provide guidance? How are they more qualified than a layperson? If they don't know the answer and I do, how does that make them an authority and me not? It's ridiculous to take that approach. If they can't fix us, then we should take charge of our own health.
Due to arrogance or ignorance plus possible sanction from their own kind, they will almost always condemn any other approach to their own. Except Richard's Thai doctor who was quite happy when he told him he had started to take Sadao (Neem). Warfarin has some nasty side effects and is a very dangerous drug, while Neem has none. What say you Mr Lindosfan1? Why didn't you advise Richard to try a safe, natural remedy without side effects before trying a dangerous synthetic pharma drug? Not biased are you?
It's no good relying on studies which these days are all too often biased or tainted or have not been conducted at all (See Vioxx). I do agree that you should find out whether there's any problem taking herbal medicine at the same time as your existing medication. BUT many herbal compilations work synergistically together to enhance effects. You can have 20 different herbs in a tincture or tonic. It's quite impossible due to the complexities of the human body, the number of phytochemicals, the number of actions and effects to actually say why something works or what's actually happening. In herbalism, often it just works. Medical reductionism creates scientists in specific disciplines and they are highly educated and eminent but it's impossible for them to know everything. If they did, we would all be healed. No? There's more than one way to skin a cat and Granny, with her spoonful of Blackstrap Molasses doesn't have a Masters Degree in endocrinology. Nor does she have a double-blind, peer reviewed study costing millions of dollars. She gives the child a loving spoonful and the child gets well. THAT'S what interests me! You can stick your science.
If people were actually being harmed by herbs, the media, who receive a lot of drug advertising money would be all over it like a rash. It's a completely double standard and you are wrong to see herbs as some dire threat. Mother Nature isn't so dumb as to polish off the human family so easily.
Everyone knows what the Allopathic answer is already but not what natural remedies are out there, that might be useful. Since you 'agree there are some good natural products' perhaps you can enlighten us as to which ones are good?
ps. I've just finished making a powder from mangosteen rind and am experimenting with it. It's been little studied but in the west except by Dr. James Duke, who worked for the USDA for 35 years and the University of Maryland. He created a comprehensive phytochemical and ethnobotanical database which he has placed on the internet.
It's got some amazingly wide-ranging effects, including lowering blood pressure.
"Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted, under any circumstances, to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error."---William Thoms
Those who are good nevertheless still work within parameters set by the system. Clearly something is wrong. If they had all the answers, you wouldn't be on drugs. But actually the problem isn't them. It's us. We refuse to change our lifestyles and only act when it's too late. If you know that smoking, drinking, eating fatty food and failing to exercise is setting you up for a heart attack, why not do something about it now instead of after the fact?
