High Blood Pressure

[Wanderlust]

I have recently found out that I have high blood pressure, or hypertension as it appears to be called now, and I am looking into every aspect of it that I can. The first doctor I saw prescribed Amlodipine 5mg twice a day, also known as Norvasc, which is a 'calcium channel blocker', but after 9 days on that there has only been a small reduction and I feel lousy - tired all the time and finding it hard to get out of bed in the morning. I saw another doctor today at the same hospital, and he wanted to prescribe a different drug (Diovan 160mg not sure how frequent), but I told him that I wanted to find out more before I would buy or put any more drugs in me. I know how serious high blood pressure can be, but equally I know that the side effects of some of these drugs are almost as harmful. I would be grateful if any other readers who suffer from HBP (or have knowledge about it) could post what drugs they are taking, how effective they have been and what side effects they have encountered.

I have also been reading a lot about Apple Cider Vinegar, which I believe Mr Plum has posted about before, and it's apparent 'miracle cure' properties on a whole range of things including HBP - is anyone taking this and what are their opinions? Mr P I would particularly like your input on this, either on this thread or in a PM. I have already bought some and am taking it every day (since Saturday) but I would like to know more from others.

My main aim now is to lose weight and exercise more, as well as trying to change my diet to a more beneficial one, but I obviously need to lower my blood pressure as well fairly urgently. I would rather not take drugs but if I have to, so be it, but I'd like to know what I am letting myself in for. One final question for anyone who knows about blood pressure, when is the best time to measure it to get a reliable and comparable number? Mine has been all over the place and has varied by as much as 30 when measured within 5 minutes of another reading! How accurate are the automatic machines (in hospitals as opposed to the traditional inflated armbands or home monitoring kits) and can they be wrongly calibrated? My readings (systolic) so far have been 170,170 and 200 in a 15 minute period when I was first aware of the problem, followed about 30 minutes later by 200 again on a different machine, then 2 days later it was 155, and then a week later (today) it was 180 (twice). Is this the nature of these readings or is that unusual? Anything anyone can contribute to this thread will be most welcome, and I am sure will be of use to others as well, but please don't let it descend into a debate on the pharmaceutical companies and the healthcare system! Thanks.

[STEVE G]

WL, I don't know anything about your specific condition, but when it comes to blood pressure testing my farther has had regular monitoring for years now due to having an artificial valve.
He tells me that it can differ by quite a lot by such things as drinking a cup of coffee, or just the stress of driving to the hospital in traffic.

[Winkie]

I have a glass of ACV and Honey (usally with Cayenne Pepper) morning and night.

I don't have HBP, but I didn't before.

I do beleive that regular use of ACV and also Cold Pressed Coconut oil (take 2 tablespoons each morning) can lead to improved general health, including control of Blood Pressure.

I'm not so well informed as Mr P, but there certainly is a wealth of info on the internet. There are also some excellent books about both ACV and Coconut Oil available in Asia Books (in BKK).

ACV is available in Villa in HH, you should use either Healthmate Organic ACV or Bratt's Organic. Both contain the 'Mother' which is the important part. Personally I use the Healthmate one as it comes from NZ, not from US, and its a few Baht Cheaper too.

Its only in recent years that I've adopted this positive approach to natural health control, but I can honestly say that for me, it works, without any doubt. However, its not an overnight cure to anything, you must routinely do it, and over time you will be surprised to see home beneficial the result can be.

You certainly cannot do yourself any harm, to begin to take AC now, whilst you investigate further. Coconut Oil too, (but must be unrefined, if you want to avoid paying high prices in Pharmacies, you can buy in bulk, as I do).

Hope the info helps

[London Boy]

Hi everyone new to the site and thought I'd give my penny worth to this one. I have HPB and the same readings as say. I take Co-Diovan 160 / 12.5 and fingers crossed all is well and has been for the past 1 1/2 year.
by rights the doctor should start you off low and then build up to your required level. Good Luck

[Bamboo Grove]

Wonderlust, did they check your blood´s sugar level as well. Overweight, HBP and sugar levels can lead to diabetes. Losing weight is very important here.

[Khundon1975]

I have recently found out that I have high blood pressure, or hypertension as it appears to be called now, and I am looking into every aspect of it that I can. The first doctor I saw prescribed Amlodipine 5mg twice a day, also known as Norvasc, which is a 'calcium channel blocker', but after 9 days on that there has only been a small reduction and I feel lousy - tired all the time and finding it hard to get out of bed in the morning. I saw another doctor today at the same hospital, and he wanted to prescribe a different drug (Diovan 160mg not sure how frequent), but I told him that I wanted to find out more before I would buy or put any more drugs in me. I know how serious high blood pressure can be, but equally I know that the side effects of some of these drugs are almost as harmful. I would be grateful if any other readers who suffer from HBP (or have knowledge about it) could post what drugs they are taking, how effective they have been and what side effects they have encountered.

I have also been reading a lot about Apple Cider Vinegar, which I believe Mr Plum has posted about before, and it's apparent 'miracle cure' properties on a whole range of things including HBP - is anyone taking this and what are their opinions? Mr P I would particularly like your input on this, either on this thread or in a PM. I have already bought some and am taking it every day (since Saturday) but I would like to know more from others.

My main aim now is to lose weight and exercise more, as well as trying to change my diet to a more beneficial one, but I obviously need to lower my blood pressure as well fairly urgently. I would rather not take drugs but if I have to, so be it, but I'd like to know what I am letting myself in for. One final question for anyone who knows about blood pressure, when is the best time to measure it to get a reliable and comparable number? Mine has been all over the place and has varied by as much as 30 when measured within 5 minutes of another reading! How accurate are the automatic machines (in hospitals as opposed to the traditional inflated armbands or home monitoring kits) and can they be wrongly calibrated? My readings (systolic) so far have been 170,170 and 200 in a 15 minute period when I was first aware of the problem, followed about 30 minutes later by 200 again on a different machine, then 2 days later it was 155, and then a week later (today) it was 180 (twice). Is this the nature of these readings or is that unusual? Anything anyone can contribute to this thread will be most welcome, and I am sure will be of use to others as well, but please don't let it descend into a debate on the pharmaceutical companies and the healthcare system! Thanks.

Hi Wanderlust

Blood pressure is a funny thing and my Cardiologist told me to never do a self test first thing in the morning.
Adrenaline is pumped into the body at that time, so your pressure may be too high, this causes the brain to panic and it goes even higher.

Get up and do your thing for an hour then sit down and test, you should find that it is a lot lower.

He also advised me to do tests after excursion/light exercise and record both sets of results.
He advised me to test about 4 times a day for the first 6 months and also record what you did just before test ie: drinking, eating, resting and exercise. This will then allow you to work out a good average over the days and weeks you record the results.
As an example drinking 2 litres of water will bump up your BP for an hour as will a big meal.

I use an arm monitor as used by my Cardiologist, but sometimes get funny readings (Very High) and much better reading on the second try 2 Min's later.
I have yearly Angiograms (due one in 2 weeks) and they use 2 BP monitors during the operation.
One is the same arm pressure monitor I use at home and another is a tiny digital monitor that is inserted into an artery during the op, both read more or less the same so I am not worried about the type of monitor I use. I don't think you can calibrate them as they come as sealed unit.

I take Amlodipine 5mg + Ramipril and loads of other drugs but only once a day in the morning, no serious side effects after 8 years. Also take ACV 2 table spoons daily.

My pressure is on average 120 over 70 but sometimes (just after getting out of bed) heart rate is way high 180 BPM and BP off the scale due to the Adrenaline effect, so now I wait an hour before doing morning test.

Cut out the salt and Nam Pla and processed foods high in salt, as this is one thing that is easy to do and beneficial in reducing your BP. You only need between 4-6 grams a day in a healthy diet.

Never heard or tried Coconut oil but I will look into it, thanks Winkie

Mr P will have much more info on natural remedies and I'm sure he will post them for you.

Good luck WL

[hhfarang]

Hi Wanderlust,

Sorry to hear about your BP. It can be a tricky problem. If it is simply brought on by smoking, poor diet, being overweight, and lack of exercise, changing those habits may well cure it.

I was diagnosed with borderline HBP at 18 years of age, so it was hereditary. At that point in my life I was thin, very fit, and only drank occasionally and hadn't started chain smoking yet. I ate a healthy home cooked diet provided by my mother that included fruits, veggies and all the right stuff.

As I aged and picked up bad habits, of course it became much worse and by the age of 35 I was put on medication. My doctor tried everything available at that time and could bring it down somewhat, but could never get it into normal range, and as you have found some of the medications have undesired side effects.

Finally, about ten years ago a new drug came onto the market and it is the first one that not only controls my condition acceptably (especially if I keep a little weight off and exercise), it does it with zero side effects. I've been taking it ever since.

It is called Aprovel here (Avapro in the U.S.). I actually take CoAprovel which is a combination drug with the BP med combined with Hydrochlorothiazide, which is a medication to keep you from retaining water which also lowers blood pressure.

This medication is a little bit expensive here (about 1250 baht for a 28 day supply) and only available at one pharmacy that I know of in Hua Hin. It's more easily found in Bangkok and a little bit cheaper.

You may want to ask your doctor what he thinks about it.

[Khundon1975]

WL sorry I forgot to say which BP monitor I use. It is the OMRON M10-IT, costs about £45 in UK.

[Khundon1975]

WL sorry I forgot to say which BP monitor I use. It is the OMRON M10-IT, costs about £45 in UK.
HHfarang

My BP problems are mainly caused by high levels of the hormone aldosterone (primary hyperaldosteronism) and heart problems and I was told that I would not respond to this drug, so was not put on it.
So it was Amlodopine or nothing.

[hhfarang]

My BP problems are mainly caused by high levels of the hormone aldosterone (primary hyperaldosteronism) and heart problems and I was told that I would not respond to this drug, so was not put on it. So it was Amlodopine or nothing.

That's the problem with hypertension. It can be caused by many different things and medications that work for one person may not work or may even be dangerous for another. I went through years of trial and error with various medications and classes of BP meds until the doctor finally found one that worked for me.

I was on a medication that was in the class of Beta Blockers for a while and it brought my bp down but it also gave me a chronic dry cough. Aprovel is in a class called Angiotensin Receptor Blockers and works in a completely different way, but it turns out that it not only controls my pressure better, it has no side effects.

You need a well trained and diligent doctor to find the right med or combination of meds for you.

[Khundon1975]

My BP problems are mainly caused by high levels of the hormone aldosterone (primary hyperaldosteronism) and heart problems and I was told that I would not respond to this drug, so was not put on it. So it was Amlodopine or nothing.

That's the problem with hypertension. It can be caused by many different things and medications that work for one person may not work or may even be dangerous for another. I went through years of trial and error with various medications and classes of BP meds until the doctor finally found one that worked for me.

I was on a medication that was in the class of Beta Blockers for a while and it brought my bp down but it also gave me a chronic dry cough. Aprovel is in a class called Angiotensin Receptor Blockers and works in a completely different way, but it turns out that it not only controls my pressure better, it has no side effects.

You need a well trained and diligent doctor to find the right med or combination of meds for you.

HH glad you got yourself sorted, lets hope WL has the same luck as us.

[Wanderlust]

Many thanks for all the swift replies. To answer a couple of queries, I was tested for diabetes, along with having an ECG, chest X-ray and blood and urine tests a week ago - everything was fine, except for one thing which I already knew about, gout. I thought I would be a prime candidate for diabetes given my age and lifestyle and was amazed (as was my wife!) that I am not diabetic.

My BP was tested some years ago (maybe 20?) in the UK and I was told it was 'slightly high but nothing to worry about' then, and then I had another test in Hua Hin about 4 years ago with the same result (can't remember the numbers). I have always been quite a heavy drinker, but have never smoked, and until about 3 years ago I had fairly regular exercise (swimming, tennis, squash), but I have definitely led a bit of a sedentary life recently. I didn't mention it in my initial post, but I went to the hospital in the first place because of a problem with my feet, which has cleared up now but was, according to the doctor, a contributory factor to my initial high readings.

I'm pretty sure there is a hereditary factor in there as well - my Dad had a stroke about 10 years ago and I'm pretty sure my Mum's brother had HBP, and he had a heart attack and died when he was only 49. My Mum also has some heart related problems which includes HBP too I think, but both she and my Dad are in their 80's so that is probably to be expected.

I guess what i really want to know is whether I can manage the condition without drugs? Judging from the replies so far it would seem the answer is no, although I wonder if Mr Plum will have other ideas? I am also assuming that all those who have replied have had to alter their diet and lifestyle as well, so no or very little alcohol, no processed or junk foods, more fresh fruit and veggies and keeping an eye on the salt content. How hard has that been to do and continue? Or can you allow some lapses every now and again?

[MrPlum]

With all the information available online, we can all play 'Doctor'. Obviously experience and the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff helps a lot. With so many on the board having already had this problem, such as hh and khundon, we have a wealth of knowledge to draw from, both orthodox and natural.

WL. There are many 'herbal' compounds that will cure HBP and Gout, without side effects. I keep a few in my kitchen. winkie's approach is one I would also echo. ACV is easy to find and use.

If you recall I made a post a while back about a Portuguese man who had heart disease. He sat at my table and plonked a plate of chips, fatty pork and a couple of bottles of cold beer down in front of me, then pulled out a container with about 10 pills in it. He was clearly overweight yet tucked in with relish. To him, as long as he had his pills he could carry on with his toxifying lifestyle.

There is a definite choice that can be made when it comes to your health. Either you settle for a 'quick fix' symptom relief, possibly for life and there is nothing wrong with that. It's your body after all. Or you attempt to remove the underlying cause. I say attempt because many people don't get the results they expect due to a lack of education or application. I'll gladly sit and talk to you all day about the approaches I would use.

Kidney stones and heart disease can influence BP as can high cholesterol, anxiety and tension. All these can be fixed. The first thing I would address is diet. If you need quick results and don't want to go the pharma route, you can drop your blood pressure in 24-48 hrs just by stopping eating. With juice fasting, in 7-10 days, you can transform your life. BUT you will have to adopt a healthy diet or your symptoms are likely to come back.

Don't forget animal fats. I would veto animal protein full stop, at least until you are better. Use rock salt if you can find it.

I find it easy to eat healthily but it did take time to adjust. Sudden, dramatic changes are stressful.

[Khundon1975]

Many thanks for all the swift replies. To answer a couple of queries, I was tested for diabetes, along with having an ECG, chest X-ray and blood and urine tests a week ago - everything was fine, except for one thing which I already knew about, gout. I thought I would be a prime candidate for diabetes given my age and lifestyle and was amazed (as was my wife!) that I am not diabetic.

My BP was tested some years ago (maybe 20?) in the UK and I was told it was 'slightly high but nothing to worry about' then, and then I had another test in Hua Hin about 4 years ago with the same result (can't remember the numbers). I have always been quite a heavy drinker, but have never smoked, and until about 3 years ago I had fairly regular exercise (swimming, tennis, squash), but I have definitely led a bit of a sedentary life recently. I didn't mention it in my initial post, but I went to the hospital in the first place because of a problem with my feet, which has cleared up now but was, according to the doctor, a contributory factor to my initial high readings.

I'm pretty sure there is a hereditary factor in there as well - my Dad had a stroke about 10 years ago and I'm pretty sure my Mum's brother had HBP, and he had a heart attack and died when he was only 49. My Mum also has some heart related problems which includes HBP too I think, but both she and my Dad are in their 80's so that is probably to be expected.

I guess what i really want to know is whether I can manage the condition without drugs? Judging from the replies so far it would seem the answer is no, although I wonder if Mr Plum will have other ideas? I am also assuming that all those who have replied have had to alter their diet and lifestyle as well, so no or very little alcohol, no processed or junk foods, more fresh fruit and veggies and keeping an eye on the salt content. How hard has that been to do and continue? Or can you allow some lapses every now and again?

WL I'm diabetic and control it with diet, drugs (metformin) and exercise when I can and now it is under control.

As for BP control, I use as I said some drugs but the rest is achieved with simple lifestyle changes.

No salt, that's easy and just add other spices if you want tasty food.

Exercise, a brisk walk if possible a couple times a day to get pulse rate up and give the heart some exercise.

Food, just cut out the processed crap it's easy but you can still have the odd treat.

Drink, in moderation, a couple of small beers a day or 2-3 glasses of wine.

You don't need to live like a monk, just a few changes will bring results in your health.
I am the worst type as I loved all things bad for me but the changes were easy to make and I don't miss the lifestyle I had before.

Stick with it WL you will succeed.

[seasidesurfer]

Hi.
Try an aspirin every day. After a meal
It thins the blood and lowers blood pressure