Khundon1975 wrote:It seems to me, that if a child of any age has to be beaten with a stick, then you, as a parent, have lost the war.
Discipline should not be by the cane but should be by the spoken word from an early age. If you have to resort to violence in any form, then that says more about you and your parenting skills than it does about the child.
Kids will always push the boundaries, it is up to the parents and teachers to make sure that the pushing stops well before the cane comes out.
you obviously didn't live, grow up or go to school in an inner city council estate !?!
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
redzonerocker wrote:you obviously didn't live, grow up or go to school in an inner city council estate !?!
1800 boys at my London comprehensive! Saw a few beatings and as we got to about 15, racial tension where there was none previously, a few minor stabbings - a major one when a pupil died in a playground incident and witnessed the headmaster get a slap from a pupil, and no, the school wasn't approved!
Needless to say that I passed on the opportunity of becoming a prefect!
Can't help but shrug when I read about the kids of today!
[quote="Khundon1975"][
I have 8 nieces and nephews, non of which have ever been beaten or caned by their parents or teachers and every one has turned into a happy well rounded adult, with respect for their parents, friends and other members of society.
KD, as with many people in this type of debate you confuse a beating with a short sharp slap.
I'm amazed at the neanderthal responses on this thread. "It didn't do me any harm!" But I doubt it did you any good. If a teacher has to resort to violence then that says volumes about the capability of the teacher to teach and he/she should not be allowed to teach. It's illegal in Thailand and many other countries. Even when it was accepted for teachers to beat their students, it was still illegal in the criminal code (assault). When I was at school in the 50's, I received a head injury from my maths teacher at grammar school. My parents duly reported to the police and that teacher was dismissed instantly and was ordered by the court to pay compensation.
My children, who are at a catholic school in Hua Hin, have been smacked by teachers for very minor things. They loved school until there was the threat of a smack with a steel ruler. They became frightened to go to school. Having talked to the head (who agreed 100% that it shouldn't happen) they don't get physical punishment anymore and the morning problems of getting them to school has gone.
What does a beating teach? That big people can hit little people? Then how do you handle the 'school bully' when the worst bullies are the teachers.
Teaching is a noble profession but if a teacher needs a stick to control his/her class then he/she should not be allowed to teach.
I have suffered 'six of the best' at school. 'It will hurt me more than it hurts you, lad'. Did it do me any harm ---- probably not but it certainly didn't do me any good. It has made me aware of the total senselessness of it.
I've brought up 4 children. My eldest 2 who are now grown-up, were brought up by me as a single parent. I never once throughout their lives have they received as much as a smack from me. They've both become responsible members of the community. I would never tolerate anyone, teachers or others, to dish out beatings to any of my children.
VIOLENCE IN MANY CASES BEGETS VIOLENCE.
To the neanderthals:- Let's stick the kids up the chimneys and forget education. That should sort things out. Who needs progress anyway?
My experience of (semi) Thai families here in the UK has been about 50% of Thai parents will discipline their kids (with a small slap); and 50% will not.
The results are very clear to see:
- The disciplined kids are like true Thai kids - will give you a wai when they see you and are very polite. In most cases they can truly be classed as 'little angels'.
- Those that aren't disciplined range from unruly to the kids from hell.
I am not talking smacks that would hurt - just a tap. I think it's the shame which deters them - especially if the smack happens in front of somebody else. I am sure the above does not apply just to (semi) Thai kids.
Me personally, I wouldn't dream of hitting a kiddie. My wife did the discipline bit in our house, and the odd smack here and there where deserved has seen my son develop into a smart young man that I am very proud of. Throughout his childhood, I don't think we ever heard a bad word said about him.
A rare post HHTel, good to see you're still around.
It's an interesting situation really, all of this, plus the variety of responses. Maybe beatings are of course not the way into the future here even if they had debatable positive/negative results in the past, or anywhere else either. However, it's hard to see a viable, realistic or plausible alternative on a large scale, especially here where they can't/won't even sort out something as benign as the dog problem because it's too much hassle, don't hold out much hope for much else. Yes, we can all speak for our own households but most on this forum appear as "relatively" responsible entities in their own right, on a lot of fronts, there are of course always exceptions.
The inevitable problem is that the more out-of-control children, or people in general society, become the louder the call for stronger responses become. It's a snowball rolling downhill really.
How do you instigate a concept of right and wrong in a child without the threat of physical/liberty sanctions? There didn't used to be quite such a problem as there is now because the influence of the older style family values were more widespread and encompassing/complied to. Now, all bet are off.
Yes, the answer is serious 'talk', and I'm sure it happens within most responsible peoples' households.
However, in the general households' within most countries, not just Thailand, there is a distinct lack of this bordering on apathy as to the child's psychological development, it's a case of "Do what thou wilt" etc and you can see the results, only to have the wayward child's parent scream bloody hell when the child's actions a called into question. Most families in many countries are consumed with the acquisition of money and all welfare is derived from this, too busy to contemplate if their children are growing into acceptable human beings, it's almost an antiquated concept outside those sections of the community that have sizable disposable incomes, and even then it's not all in this mentioned section that subscribe to what I just said, falling miserably short in reality.
The answer is family interest in turning out decent children, which IMO, is lacking greatly in this modern age, not just here but everywhere.
It all starts at home and the family environment is crucial in a child's development. The influence of the parents is paramount as to whether a child gets direction or not.
Those parents that fail to comprehend this will only see the results which will often end up as involvement at a future date with the law enforcement agencies because of a lack of understanding of what is acceptable and what is not.
Social values seem, in general everywhere, to be regressing rather than the other way.
Sadly, there are of course success stories in some places which seem like islands of example in a sea of failure.
It does appear to be "Catch 22" with this one some times.
Khundon1975 wrote:[
I have 8 nieces and nephews, non of which have ever been beaten or caned by their parents or teachers and every one has turned into a happy well rounded adult, with respect for their parents, friends and other members of society.
KD, as with many people in this type of debate you confuse a beating with a short sharp slap.
Arcadian
The only thing that confuses me, is that you as an adult count a slap as non violent. If you don't know the difference, then how the hell is a child meant to. Let me give you a slap, I bet you will count it as violence, when your head stops ringing. A slap or 6 of the best are the same thing, an adult committing abuse on a child and no amount of words will change that.
Spitfire has the idea.
The answer is family interest in turning out decent children, which IMO, is lacking greatly in this modern age, not just here but everywhere.
It all starts at home and the family environment is crucial in a child's development. The influence of the parents is paramount as to whether a child gets direction or not.
Those parents that fail to comprehend this will only see the results which will often end up as involvement at a future date with the law enforcement agencies because of a lack of understanding of what is acceptable andwhat is not.
Once a parent or teacher uses "a slap" as a way of getting what they want from a child, then that child may well go on to "slap" another child, to get what he or she wants. They call that bullying in the playground. Assault, when they grow up and live in the adult world.
Of course it is easier and quicker to hit a child, rather than take the time to talk to them and help them to understand what is and what is not acceptable behaviour.
I've lost my mind and I am making no effort to find it.
You have to bring evolution into all of this as well, unfortunately by race and by country. External forces on a baby 'here', and a baby 'there', will produce different results. Internal forces (the parents and older siblings) would have been influenced in the same way. On and on, generation after generation.
You talk about slapping a kid, a kid's Mother could easily get stoned to death or in India acid thrown in her face if in some way the husband is shamed, much more true is that he simply wants another woman and the Mother is framed. The kid sees all of that and is influenced much more than if the husband slapped and scolded the wife. The kid may never get slapped, but he may think it's OK to murder or disfigure his wife.
So, which evolutionary path and approach is correct? Slapping a kid in the West is many times more from impatience on the parents part. A quick end to the problem after a tough day. Of course, there are exceptions and the kid leaves no alternative...why?...really a bad egg...ignorant parents with no child skills...both.....other? Hard to answer these questions. Not many parents in the West slap and then not regret it after the fact. They then go in and talk to the child. It's urgent that's done to restore the parent child bond. If the parent is too stupid to realize that, birth control failed.
In China in the past and to a lesser degree now, it's too expensive and time consuming to raise a daughter, just kill her at or before birth. No slaps or headaches down the road. India and the Middle Waste referenced above. Africa, who the hell knows. Chopping people, rapes on the magnitude never seen on this planet, child soldiers/killers.
Thailand only four decades ago killing and throwing in the trash babies born of Thai Mothers and negro fathers, and to a much lesser degree from white fathers as well. I know this as a fact, I found them in the trash off base as part of my job on a daily basis, as well as the bloated dead bodies of so many mixed up young soldiers who OD' here.
For all the bitching and moaning that goes on here about America, the UK, Europe we should get down on our knees and thank someone of your choice that we were born and raised there and not somewhere else, and hold on to our values.
Yes, it takes power to hold on to what one believes in. People get killed to maintain what they believe in. If you have the power, you have it. But it has to be used wisely, just like before a parent or teacher decides to hit a child. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
See KD, there you go again assuming that a slap makes the kid`s ears ring, I never said a slap across the face. My two kids managed to survive with a slap on the legs if they stepped over the boundary. They have grown up to be non-violent adults we can be proud of. Of course I do not condone abuse but there has to be a middle road. Parents of their peers tried to reason with their kids who then made the parents lives a misery with no parameters to work with. Children will always push their luck, mine knew how far they could go.
Arcadian
"They have grown up to be non-violent adults we can be proud of".
Good for you, well done. But what do you do when the "slap on the legs" doesn't work. Where and how hard do you hit them the next time, or the time after that?
I've lost my mind and I am making no effort to find it.
Khundon1975 wrote:Arcadian
"They have grown up to be non-violent adults we can be proud of".
Good for you, well done. But what do you do when the "slap on the legs" doesn't work. Where and how hard do you hit them the next time, or the time after that?
Was watching Channel 3 with the Mrs today and she helped me out a bit with translation etc but it seems this has come to a conclusion, even though I can't find anything on The Nation or BBK Post about it yet, maybe tomorrow in the 'breaking news' section.
It appears from the TV that there were 3 teachers indited (2 men and one woman), sent to jail for a year, teachers are fined about 8 thousand baht each and the school (St. Mary's) was fined 120,000 baht for each of the 4 students involved.
not the naughty corner..... 
