Tales of Woe effecting the Economy, Where will it End????

Post by **canada1** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:33 pm

Thank you for your reply

So what would be the cost of renew lease in 30 years, ball park figure.

How do we make our investment legal as we dont know any thais we would trust.

also this i read.

using thai nominee as land owner.
Following this goverments recent move to put an end to the practice of foreigners using "shell" companies to own land many foreigners now hope to transfer the land title deed to a thai national and simultanously register a 30 year lease "renewable" lease (or usufruct for life) in the foreigners name, is this allowed.

No. The land code prohibits the use of a Thai national to acquire land as a nominee owner in place of the foreigner (section 96 land code).

In this construction both parties risk being fined or jailed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hobsons choice!

so for those of us with homes, What Now.

Fingers crossed perhaps and dont answer the door.
Great site BTW and i know others near us will also comment soon.

Thanks, steve

Post by **JimmyGreaves** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:06 pm

Burger wrote:From the lease contracts I've ever seen, take your pick from any of the following:

a) 0 Baht
b) Zero
c) Zilch
d) Nothing
e) F*** All
f) Not a bean
g) Free of charge
h) mai mee dung
i) Gratis

Expensive, isn't it ?
Yes, I can see now how I didn't want that getting out on the street, as you put it.

Burger

Burger you told me in a thread not so long ago that you had to renew it for a percentage of rent or something or other (I will find the thread later).

When I stipulated that that was crazy and the renewal should be free as it's really your land you told me no i would have to pay more money.

I will track it down later when I got some time.

Post by **Burger** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:12 pm

Steve,

You really need to see a solicitor for proper advice, but I'm sure you know that.

Currently Governement taxes on a lease for an average 4M Baht house are 15,000 Baht for the 30 year term, peanuts really.
Can't say what it'd be in 30 years time due to land increases, but probably relative to inflation!?!?

If it were me I'd use the 'buy-out' clause from the developer, put it in a friendly Thai's name (wife etc) and renew the 30 year lease say every 10 years.

Good luck,

Burger

Post by **JimmyGreaves** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:35 pm

Burger wrote:Steve,

You really need to see a solicitor for proper advice, but I'm sure you know that.

Currently Governement taxes on a lease for an average 4M Baht house are 15,000 Baht for the 30 year term, peanuts really.
Can't say what it'd be in 30 years time due to land increases, but probably relative to inflation!?!?

If it were me I'd use the 'buy-out' clause from the developer, put it in a friendly Thai's name (wife etc) and renew the 30 year lease say every 10 years.

Good luck,

Burger

Am I being stupid but why is the friendly Thai's name (wife etc) not buying it for you and leasing in the first place if this is an option?

Post by **canada1** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:48 pm

Thanks for your reply burger.

But have you missed the point?
i said.
How do we make our investment legal as we dont know any thais we would trust.

you said,
If it were me I'd use the 'buy-out' clause from the developer, put it in a friendly Thai's name (wife etc) and renew the 30 year lease say every 10 years.
--------------------------------------
Does not what i read and posted rule this out, we have a good law company in bangkok but we seem to be left with no real options if we want to make our investment legal and solid.

Steve

Post by **Burger** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:02 pm

A lease is legal and solid for 30 years whether you know the person or not.
And a 30 year lease, whether you lost the house at the end of the 30 years is still cheaper than renting.

Are you buying from a developer ? If so make sure your solicitor includes a 'buy out' clause, it's only 1% of the land value, again peanuts.

Buy out the land in the future when you know a Thai you can trust, but still have a buy-out clause with them.

you said, If it were me I'd use the 'buy-out' clause from the developer, put it in a friendly Thai's name (wife etc) and renew the 30 year lease say every 10 years.
Does not what i read and posted rule this out

What have you read that rules out 'buying out' the land from the developer ?

Burger

Post by **Burger** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:06 pm

JimmyGreaves wrote:

Am I being stupid but why is the friendly Thai's name (wife etc) not buying it for you and leasing in the first place if this is an option?

Absolutely Jimmy, most developers would love to pass the land off to you (your wife etc), I think this is common practice. The developers don't want it hanging over them, I was talking more about a farang couple who do not know any Thai's yet.

If a developer insists on it being in his name, go elsewhere, that would make me suspicious.

Burger

Post by **canada1** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:09 pm

exactly this

Following this goverments recent move to put an end to the practice of foreigners using "shell" companies to own land many foreigners now hope to transfer the land title deed to a thai national and simultanously register a 30 year lease "renewable" lease (or usufruct for life) in the foreigners name, is this allowed.

No. The land code prohibits the use of a Thai national to acquire land as a nominee owner in place of the foreigner (section 96 land code).

What we want is a real legal ownership which was what we were promised we had, we dont want anymore bending of regulations.

steve

Post by **Burger** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:20 pm

canada1 wrote:

exactly this
Following this goverments recent move to put an end to the practice of foreigners using "shell" companies to own land many foreigners now hope to transfer the land title deed to a thai national and simultanously register a 30 year lease "renewable" lease (or usufruct for life) in the foreigners name, is this allowed.
No. The land code prohibits the use of a Thai national to acquire land as a nominee owner in place of the foreigner (section 96 land code).

Steve, you're mixing up ownership of land (by using a Limited Company and nominee Thai shareholders) and leasing of land.
Yes, the Land Code prohibits a 'nominee' Thai national aquiring (owning) land on behalf of a foreigner, but the Land Code is about ownership of land.

But leasing is totally different (because you will not be owning the land) and is perfectly legal for an initial 30 year period.
The 30 year lease gets registered at the land office and is printed on the back of the Land Title (Chanote).

PS: You can and should legally own the house, but you're only leasing the land.

Burger

Post by **Nereus** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:35 pm

canada1 wrote: --------------------------------------
Does not what i read and posted rule this out, we have a good law company in bangkok but we seem to be left with no real options if we want to make our investment legal and solid.

Steve

Sir, with the utmost respect, seems to me that you should either; change your lawyer, or get another opinion. You do not seem to be getting the legal advice that you are paying for.

Post by **canada1** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:12 am

But that what i have posted applies to leases.

It is in black and white.

nerous

Its the answer i get that worries us from the lawyers.

Lets show an example,

You pay 5plus million for a house and were told that it was 100% yours and then 18months down the road you are told sorry but now you must give up your land papers and accept a 30year lease.

Can you see my point, please no ranting just a point. entirely our own fault for being taken in.
just hope for the best. thanx all.

steve

Post by **Burger** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:23 am

canada1 wrote:

But that what i have posted applies to leases.
It is in black and white.

No, what you have posted about Thai nominees does not apply to leases.

Please show me your 'black and white' proof.

Burger

Post by **caller** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:22 am

Well, I was going to post a full response to Burgers earlier reply to me, but as I can't be assed after another honest days toil, I will limit myself to this:

Your post implies that you are talking about estate agents, nowhere do you mention solicitors apart from in your reply to me. Your 2nd response appears to be condoning less than honest agents and your last reply is disingenious, as nowhere in your orignal post about house prices increasing did you link it to extra facilities, such as a golf course, being built.

Thats 3 big omissions in my book.

Neither do house prices or the property market in London (or Perth) bear any relation to Hua Hin! Thats just plain daft.

Parts of Oz have had quite a housing price slump over a few years now, so maybe that is the way HH will go if trends are followed?

In response to others - Okay I haven't been in LOS since May last year, but believe me, I have visited a lot of developments and houses, not just in Hua Hin. I've put the miles in and done the research.

If I buy, I'm not interested in a profit, just the security of having somewhere to live and at a price I regard as providing VFM. If that is not Hua Hin, so be it.

On a happier note, house prices in my street have increased by about 40k in the last few months, making me a lot better off (on paper at least).

Burger, as a (shall remain anon) pm caller to me said recently , you build good properties, but your comments are sometimes a little off the wall!

Post by **canada1** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:24 am

Here it is!

Section 96 land code.

When it appears that any person (including a juristic person) has acquired land as the owner in place of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of section 97-98, the director general shall have the authority to dispose of such land and the provisions of section 94 shall apply mutatis mutandis.

section 113

Any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of section 97-98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 20thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding 2 years or both.

This is the land code and not the FBA, this was pointed out by our lawyer. Bangkok Legal Associates Limited.

As said what happens to those of us who bought 18months ago under the promise we fully owned our land, going back next week to see if we have a legal claim?

BTW i have been told that a large company that owns a major magazine here has closed its construction operations down, is this a sign of the times,

Hey at least it is a lot warmer here than back home, so will enjoy while it lasts.

Steve

NHL, gods own league.

Post by **Burger** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:30 am

caller wrote:

Your post implies that you are talking about estate agents, nowhere do you mention solicitors apart from in your reply to me.

Yes I did mention solicitors in my original post, I said: They get taken to a solicitor and ask the solicitor how long is the lease, they get told 30+30+30 and they say, "wow, that's a long time, can we give you our money now please". You even quoted me as saying it !?!?!?!?!?

Your 2nd response appears to be condoning less than honest agents Not at all and your last reply is disingenious, as nowhere in your orignal post about house prices increasing did you link it to extra facilities, such as a golf course, being built.

You didn't ask, you just jumped in with your own assumptions and labelled people 'fools'. You should have asked the circumstances first, before criticising people. And I wasn't talking about 'extra facilities', just about being in an area that suddenly becomes more upmarket.

Neither do house prices or the property market in London (or Perth) bear any relation to Hua Hin! Thats just plain daft.

The reference was made to give examples that property prices can double etc in areas. Or are you suggesting Thailand is exempt from possible large price increases ? Houses on Palm Hills are being sold for 8m more than they were bought for.

Burger, as a (shall remain anon) pm caller to me said recently , you build good properties, but your comments are sometimes a little off the wall

Couldn't care less what people think of me on here, but read above where I did mention solicitors, ask an estate agent if some properties have changed hands with 3 - 8m Baht profits over two years and then see that maybe I'm speaking the truth.

Burger