Okay, just my bit.
In South Africa dogs have to have a licence disc which costs just about nothing. The inspectors drove around and any dog without a collar and disc are caught and impounded. If they are not claimed within three weeks they are put up for adoption. Affter two weeks they are then put down. The strays in Thailand pose a very serious risk so some form of solution is required.
By the way, I am a dog lover myself and have always had dogs. I have two of my own at the moment and we also take care of two which a local builder dumped here but I do feel that strays should be removed from the streets.
Dogs in Hua Hin
Dawn's going to hate me for this however :
I grew up with dogs, so I don't like to see them abandoned. Nevertheless, they can be a real menace. Jumping out at motorcycles and generally causing an accident.
Personally, when I see a dog in front of the bike I'm on , I'm worried.
Is anyone going to try and tell me that the dog is always so clever that it will scurry in the right direction?
I'll never forget the words of an Aunt of mine in India "if you ever see a cow in the road, go around its rear end". Reason being simple, if you scare it, it might make a dent in your car.
A collision with a dog will never result in the same carnage, however it can kill you and your passenger.
There are still too many of them.
I grew up with dogs, so I don't like to see them abandoned. Nevertheless, they can be a real menace. Jumping out at motorcycles and generally causing an accident.
Personally, when I see a dog in front of the bike I'm on , I'm worried.
Is anyone going to try and tell me that the dog is always so clever that it will scurry in the right direction?
I'll never forget the words of an Aunt of mine in India "if you ever see a cow in the road, go around its rear end". Reason being simple, if you scare it, it might make a dent in your car.
A collision with a dog will never result in the same carnage, however it can kill you and your passenger.
There are still too many of them.
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DawnHRD
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No Lomu, I don't hate you for expressing that opinion. By & large I agree with you. Soi dogs do cause many vehicular accidents.
Takiap, your plan may work in S. Africa, because, as you say, they put the dogs down (not actually something I agree with, but it is a policy operated in many countries, particularly Western countries & it does result in fewer strays) This is a buddhist country, they will not put down the dogs, so they round them up & put them ...where, exactly? In Hua Hin it is a facility near the Elephant Village (we're actually up in that facility too, now! I'd like to point out, though we & they have no affiliation, they merely kindly gave us some land.) with about 1,600 dogs in it. They have no more space now, so are bringing in fewer dogs. There are still dogs on the street, some of those are still causing a problem.
As I've said many times before (so often that I'm sick of hearing myself saying it) the only long term successful solution would be a neuter & release programme. The manpower utilised in clearing dogs from a neighbourhood & putting them in a pound, where they (like prisoners) are a drain on the taxpayer until they (the dogs) die should be utilised in bringing the dogs in for neutering & vaccination & then all apart from the real troublemakers go back to their neighbourhood.
No immediate downturn in the numbers & initially a costly venture. But no more generations of puppies. Bitches breed on average twice a year, having an average of 6 pups per litter. Male dogs roam at will, fathering thousands. We did a neuter clinic last year where we neutered 42 dogs. With the bitches alone, we calculated that we have stopped 29,000 dogs being born in HH over the following 3 years. Just think if this was common practice!
At HHDRC, we neuter every street dog we take for treatment (& vaccinate them) before they go back onto the street. All of the dogs in our center are neutered as soon as they are the appropriate age. The WHO advocates sterilisation as the only effective method of population control. It's the only way forward, but it's hard to get the message across...
Takiap, your plan may work in S. Africa, because, as you say, they put the dogs down (not actually something I agree with, but it is a policy operated in many countries, particularly Western countries & it does result in fewer strays) This is a buddhist country, they will not put down the dogs, so they round them up & put them ...where, exactly? In Hua Hin it is a facility near the Elephant Village (we're actually up in that facility too, now! I'd like to point out, though we & they have no affiliation, they merely kindly gave us some land.) with about 1,600 dogs in it. They have no more space now, so are bringing in fewer dogs. There are still dogs on the street, some of those are still causing a problem.
As I've said many times before (so often that I'm sick of hearing myself saying it) the only long term successful solution would be a neuter & release programme. The manpower utilised in clearing dogs from a neighbourhood & putting them in a pound, where they (like prisoners) are a drain on the taxpayer until they (the dogs) die should be utilised in bringing the dogs in for neutering & vaccination & then all apart from the real troublemakers go back to their neighbourhood.
No immediate downturn in the numbers & initially a costly venture. But no more generations of puppies. Bitches breed on average twice a year, having an average of 6 pups per litter. Male dogs roam at will, fathering thousands. We did a neuter clinic last year where we neutered 42 dogs. With the bitches alone, we calculated that we have stopped 29,000 dogs being born in HH over the following 3 years. Just think if this was common practice!
At HHDRC, we neuter every street dog we take for treatment (& vaccinate them) before they go back onto the street. All of the dogs in our center are neutered as soon as they are the appropriate age. The WHO advocates sterilisation as the only effective method of population control. It's the only way forward, but it's hard to get the message across...
Last edited by DawnHRD on Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
Spot on, Dawn
However, there's just one thing I'd like to ask - and it really is just a question.
After you neuter the dogs, do you let them back out on the streets again?
I was driving through West London on my to work and I ran over a dog. I stopped, the cur was twitching - and then dead. It really shook me up. I was taken into a house, given a cup of tea and the police were called.
They arrived, looked at my car and advised me that no-one was going to claim responsibility. The dog didn't have a name tag.
Why not? It could have been a child and I would have had no chance also.
I was lucky. People around me, who I didn't know helped me out.
I was the driver after all. There was a dent in the front of the car - but sod it all, it's only me that had to remember this and go through all the proceedure at work etc etc.
For a bloody dog. I was really sorry about that. I wish I'd seen the dog's owners. But then, they'd have had to pay for the damage to the car.
Twats. So, I don't like seeing dogs anywhere near me when I'm "mobile".
However, there's just one thing I'd like to ask - and it really is just a question.
After you neuter the dogs, do you let them back out on the streets again?
I was driving through West London on my to work and I ran over a dog. I stopped, the cur was twitching - and then dead. It really shook me up. I was taken into a house, given a cup of tea and the police were called.
They arrived, looked at my car and advised me that no-one was going to claim responsibility. The dog didn't have a name tag.
Why not? It could have been a child and I would have had no chance also.
I was lucky. People around me, who I didn't know helped me out.
I was the driver after all. There was a dent in the front of the car - but sod it all, it's only me that had to remember this and go through all the proceedure at work etc etc.
For a bloody dog. I was really sorry about that. I wish I'd seen the dog's owners. But then, they'd have had to pay for the damage to the car.
Twats. So, I don't like seeing dogs anywhere near me when I'm "mobile".
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DawnHRD
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We do when we can (put them back). In the case of the neuter clinic, they all (bar one who had other problems, so we kept her) went back. I realise this doesn't help with accidents etc (particularly in the first few generations when there is no significant downturn in population), but there's simply nowhere to put them. We at HHDRC estimate that there are approx 100,000 street dogs in the area. Where are we going to put all of those & who is going to look after them? Plus, if owned dogs aren't neutered, the problem would start again, even if they were all removed, as owners start to dump unwanted puppies. 
That leads me onto another point, IMHO, all dogs should be neutered (owned & stray) unless specifically owned for breeding (& that should be monitored.) You can't moan about the street dogs if your own dogs aren't neutered. And it's so cheap here, far cheaper than in the west. It also carries many health benefits for the dogs. Ours are routinely neutered at 6 months, before they can breed. We do get caught out, we have a litter of newborns now, as we sometimes take in bitches who turn out to be pregnant.
Going back to your question, Lomu, usually they can't be put back. We take in sick & injured dogs & often their treatment takes so long that they lose their territory (other dogs move in). To put them back would cause territorial "gang wars" which would be dangerous for the dogs & (at the least,) annoying for the community, could even be dangerous for people. So we only put short-timers back or those specifically brought in for neutering only.
That leads me onto another point, IMHO, all dogs should be neutered (owned & stray) unless specifically owned for breeding (& that should be monitored.) You can't moan about the street dogs if your own dogs aren't neutered. And it's so cheap here, far cheaper than in the west. It also carries many health benefits for the dogs. Ours are routinely neutered at 6 months, before they can breed. We do get caught out, we have a litter of newborns now, as we sometimes take in bitches who turn out to be pregnant.
Going back to your question, Lomu, usually they can't be put back. We take in sick & injured dogs & often their treatment takes so long that they lose their territory (other dogs move in). To put them back would cause territorial "gang wars" which would be dangerous for the dogs & (at the least,) annoying for the community, could even be dangerous for people. So we only put short-timers back or those specifically brought in for neutering only.
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
Pete-
DawnHRD
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There is a contraceptive injection available very cheaply here, for cats & dogs (females) It works out at about 20 baht per animal. However, I would not recommend it for 2 reasons:
It has to be given every 3 months, so you have to remember it. If you forget, the animal comes on heat & you have another litter.
It can cause a serious womb infection called pyometra. This can be undetectable or can be detected because the animal has a constant discharge from her genitals (2 types). If untreated (treatment = hysterectomy) it can kill the animal. I've seen so many cases of pyometra. In fact the bitch that just had the puppies came in with another dog, who turned out to have pyometra, which I only detected because I'd seen it so often before.
It has to be given every 3 months, so you have to remember it. If you forget, the animal comes on heat & you have another litter.
It can cause a serious womb infection called pyometra. This can be undetectable or can be detected because the animal has a constant discharge from her genitals (2 types). If untreated (treatment = hysterectomy) it can kill the animal. I've seen so many cases of pyometra. In fact the bitch that just had the puppies came in with another dog, who turned out to have pyometra, which I only detected because I'd seen it so often before.
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
Dogs in Hua Hin
But how do I persuade my dear Thai wife to have her babies neutered?
It seems to be another concept that is essentially western.
We have 2 5-month old pups, one m, one f, who were part of a 7 strong litter delivered at our gate by the local street dog. Took them all to our 5 rai farm out of town. 4 pups were given to hopefully responsible locals, one was stolen and mother, always the street dog, has since died on the road.
Neither of us have had dogs before. Training of any kind, such as not jumping up at every human they meet, not biting off three fingers when you offer them tit-bits, not pooing everywhere, not chewing the fake antique elephants which guard our door, sitting, staying, coming, etc, is another peculiarly western idea.
Having had the whole property fenced, at great expense and mainly to keep them off the road, they have developed barbed-wire proof skulls. When the very nice neighbours return them from one of their walkabouts they joke that they only understand farang. But I am worried that in time it could sour our relations.
Your talk, Dawn, of sterilisation has made me realise that this is a decision that is going to have to be taken sooner rather than later. Do you know how soon? I need to work out a strategy to win the battle to have it done, but need a time frame. And lots of yellow gold bribes.
Do you know a vet who will do it? Reluctantly took the Tom cat, acquired under similar circumstances, to the local people who refused to do it.
Cheers
Deek
It seems to be another concept that is essentially western.
We have 2 5-month old pups, one m, one f, who were part of a 7 strong litter delivered at our gate by the local street dog. Took them all to our 5 rai farm out of town. 4 pups were given to hopefully responsible locals, one was stolen and mother, always the street dog, has since died on the road.
Neither of us have had dogs before. Training of any kind, such as not jumping up at every human they meet, not biting off three fingers when you offer them tit-bits, not pooing everywhere, not chewing the fake antique elephants which guard our door, sitting, staying, coming, etc, is another peculiarly western idea.
Having had the whole property fenced, at great expense and mainly to keep them off the road, they have developed barbed-wire proof skulls. When the very nice neighbours return them from one of their walkabouts they joke that they only understand farang. But I am worried that in time it could sour our relations.
Your talk, Dawn, of sterilisation has made me realise that this is a decision that is going to have to be taken sooner rather than later. Do you know how soon? I need to work out a strategy to win the battle to have it done, but need a time frame. And lots of yellow gold bribes.
Do you know a vet who will do it? Reluctantly took the Tom cat, acquired under similar circumstances, to the local people who refused to do it.
Cheers
Deek
There is a crack in everything
It's how the light gets in.
-L. Cohen
It's how the light gets in.
-L. Cohen
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DawnHRD
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My criteria is usually that I neuter dogs as soon as they've lost all their puppy teeth & got their big ones, so that's round about the 6 month mark. Try explaining to your wife all the benefits of neutering: less aggression, less wandering, no risk of reproductive organ cancers, no possibility of pyometra, less risk of VG (an extremely dangerous & contagious genital tumour), females not worn down by constant puppy bearing...
There are 2 good vets that I would recommend & either of them will do neutering pretty much anytime. One is in Soi 55/1 called the Pet Hospital, the other is the 24 hour vet on the canal (klong) road. There are other vets around, but those are the only 2 HHDRC ever use. They're both very good. Maybe you can take your wife with you for a preliminary visit & get the vet to explain the benefits of neutering to her, if you think it would be easier.
Good luck!
There are 2 good vets that I would recommend & either of them will do neutering pretty much anytime. One is in Soi 55/1 called the Pet Hospital, the other is the 24 hour vet on the canal (klong) road. There are other vets around, but those are the only 2 HHDRC ever use. They're both very good. Maybe you can take your wife with you for a preliminary visit & get the vet to explain the benefits of neutering to her, if you think it would be easier.
Good luck!
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
Dogs in Hua Hin
Thanks Dawn. I'll take your advice. I know the vet on the Klong road - quite new, near the occasional traffic lights - they are good, but it was the lady there who talked me out of having the Tom neutered. But then they might have a different policy for cats.
And I was joking about the yellow gold!
Cheers
Deek
And I was joking about the yellow gold!
Cheers
Deek
There is a crack in everything
It's how the light gets in.
-L. Cohen
It's how the light gets in.
-L. Cohen