Mafia/murder/crime,etc

[steve/m]

Ok so here it is The new thread.
As many people suggest ( and rightly so) move opinions about shootings etc away from Donalds post.
So who is gonna start?
Tell us your views,experiances etc regarding death and mayhem.

[Super Joe]

It's simple to me:
1) We all knew what goes on here when we decided to move out here. If we didn't then we should have been more responsible and researched it.
2) Never put yourself at high financial risk, buying a house is the biggest out lay, you can dictate the payment terms so that your risk is no more than 20% of the total value.
3) Never get involved in an aggressive and/or legal dispute with any Thai and/or well connected, foreigner you feel is capable of something serious.
It's not about right or wrong its about protecting your family. If you can't swallow your pride when required then good luck to you. One of the local papers had a report where they had caught a hit man who had killed his target, he did it or just 20,000 Baht!!

We have done a fair bit of building here and have decided to walk away from several hundred thousand Baht's worth of rip-offs that we couldn't resolve amicabally. We would have won these cases in a fair court, if we had made it that far. I would not put my family at risk of looking over their shoulders for a few bob.

We all know the score out here. Play with fire and ..........

SJ

[kendo]

This will be a free for all.

[cozza]

There is no simple way to put this and it will anger most I think, but I am going to say it anyway.

While I am certain from reading this forum 99% of the contributors are good people, I do not mean this to reflect my opinion at all.

When I have heard about foreigners dying, the words that come out of Thai peoples mouths are usually something like that person must have been a bad person or he must be trying to rip people off.

In no way do I think that Thais think we foreigners are bad people, but I do think there is a problem with that because they have judged (in this instance) before they know the facts, because of stereotype.

With stereotypes like these, how can foreign murders get a fair, un-biased looking into.

This is just something I have encountered and others may disagree. But I would like to hear if anyone has an opinion on this, as long as it stays civilised.

[mark johnson]

Whilst I fully agree that what is being spoke about on this thread needed to be a removed from the other thread regarding the shooting,yet again you are broadcasting something that holiday makers really dont wont to hear.As super joe says we all know what goes on and I fully agree with everything that you are saying but really do we need to talk about it.You log onto this site for information regarding what might be your holiday spot and the first thing listed is
mafia/murder/crimes
followed by
expat shooting
and then the heading that should be no 1
flags outside the palace
So lets all leave for tropical hua hin right now[NOT]
There is a news paper that goes around town I forget what its called the owner of it is a Khun Tuk well its a well known fact that most shops/resturants/bars and what ever throw it in the rubbish bin as soon as it arrives as all it shows is bad news mafis shootings and so on I wonder how long it will be before the people that pay to advertise in it will no longer do so its not what tourists wont to see,or really does anyone.

[steve/m]

Mark the point is that what has been said,and what prob will be said is true.
I for one do not realy care what some holiday maker may read or what his thoughts about coming here will be.
I only care about the truth and what is real.
May i ask Do you have a business in huahin or somewhere in LOS that you think will be affected by lack of tourists ?
Whatever is said,be it first hand experiance,or not it is all information.
Information that maybe for some makes them more aware of what could happen to themselves,or family.
and maybe even help stop things like this happening to them.
I am sorry that you dont like to hear or read these things,but its a fact of life.
It happens,all over the world and in every county of the uk.
In reality Thailands probs with this kind of thing is very small compared to the rest of the world,but even one shooting,one robbery,one rape is one 2 many.

[mark johnson]

Hi Steve

As I said before I agree with everything that is being wrote and Im sorry to here about the incident with your wife but honestly does families thinking of coming to hua hin really need to read that this town is unsafe,NO they dont if I was to read that a holiday spot had mafia connections,shootings,muggings and in your case a possible kidnapping I would not be going there EVER.I dont have any bussiness in Thailand but have been visiting it for over 20years and always rent as I think its the best way to stay here.I have only met the man that was shoot once and that was whilst he was been told to leave a resturant.I eat in the mexican opposite the sofitel and not long ago whilst I was eating there I heard the owner telling him to leave and never come back the reason was not because he was unhappy with his meal but because he was telling some customers that hua hin is a bad place to be and was telling them all sorts of stories,now really is all this talk good for anyone[NO]

[steve/m]

I agree with you SJ,good words and a sensible way of thinking.

As far as im aware Huahin does not have any so called Mafia, Yes there are plenty of people going around saying, Ohh be careful of him cos he is mafia etc.

yes there are people with guns,i know this for fact. But that does make them Mafia.

The word "mafia" is used to put fear into people.

Ask most taxi drivers about mafia and see what answer you get.

Most will start talking about people from phechtaburi.

Lets not forget,that in Huahin and prob other tourist resorts,there are plenty of asshole farangs, (that have a Thai wife) that come to LOS 2 /3 times a year get pissed up and want to fight everyone they see.
And i know .ive run into some of them in my times at my wifes shop,

And maybe this guy im refering to may know some of you that use this forum, He was with his son Dec/ 07 jan 08 Came into my wifes shop pissed up and making a general nuisance of himself,even wanted to buy her 16 year old daughter. But he did not know i was lying down in the back of her shop.

They both ended up flying out the door.

[steve/m]

Well Mark ive come to the conclusion that you must be getting a back hander from the Thai tourist authority.

cos if hearing the truth and reading the facts is .......a no no then somethings wrong somewhere.

Oh i know what you can do .tell all the tourists,that in may/ June this year that Meeeee ( farang) and his Thai wife painted the Wat in huahin for free and that if they go on google earth they can see pictures of us during and after.
Maybe they could give a small donation to the Temple to help pay for the cctv system i want to put up this Dec ( to try and stop Thai men from robbing the Wat at gunpoint)

[steve/m]

Kendo did you say free for all?
Now you know the best things in life are free.

[mark johnson]

Steve I was wondering how long it would take before this thread turned into a war of words and it was not that long.I dont work anymore and Im the father of 3 children 2 girls and 1 boy all adults with families,my son a 25year man has been to thailand 2 times but never hua hin my girls have never been to thailand as all they hear is that its full of bar girls and its sleezy this is not true but its the only reason they dont come and now there is people telling them that ontop of all that theres guns,killings and kidnappings,well done steve thailand is really a shitty place to be.

[Wanderlust]

mark johnson,
Just to interrupt steve/m's flow you seem to have the impression that this site is only for holidaymakers, which is not the case. I don't know if you ever look at Embassy websites, but at the moment most of them have a warning about coming to Thailand, which would be far more off putting to people than what is being written here; are you going to insist that they take their warnings down as it is damaging to businesses here? I think most sensible people would be glad to hear the unvarnished truth about a place they were planning to take a holiday in; most of the comments on HHAD regarding safety and crime do stress that Hua Hin and Thailand are generally safer than many Western countries, as long as you don't go looking for trouble, which I think is the key point here. You can't blame someone for wanting to stand up for their rights but at the same time there will always be a risk attached by doing so, anywhere in the world, but as a foreigner in any country this risk is magnified, so it is up to the individual to assess that risk and make their own judgement call. For your average family/couple/individual coming to Hua Hin, they will have a trouble free, safe holiday BUT painting a scenario that there is never any crime or problems at all here is not truthful and does nobody any favours. It would likely lead more people into some sort of problem and be like some twisted vicious circle - more people come here with no clue of potential problems, more encounter problems, the truth is hushed up, even more people come here with no clue of potential problems etc etc.

[mark johnson]

Steve you are correct there is probably no mafia in this town other than the police,so why did you feel the need to head this thread with the words mafia,does it turn you on and maybe as you keep telling us all that you have connections and that you throw thais out of your resturant[which I dont believe]you could be the godfather,

[mark johnson]

Point taken
I will not post on this thread again as I can see yet again its just away for people to use up there time that would normally be spent infront of the tv in steves case watching gangster movies.Im a 62 year old man and honestly Ive never seen so many lonely people that just wish to make everyone elses life sad and lonely too.goodbye

[Guess]

So far some sensible comments have been made. Let's put things into perspective that will not alarm tourists and holiday makers to Thailand.

On an older thread some figure were published that came from the UN regarding murder. Statistics such as these are always difficult and many countries have an interest in telling lies. The two countries compared were the UK and Thailand and are believable because both have a fairly high level freedom of press and freedom of speech. The populations are almost the same in the two countries. The statistics shown in that topic showed the following:

The official murder rate in Thailand is twice that in the UK.
The murder rate for foreigners in Thailand is the same as the nation as a whole.

The percentage of murders that are related to completely innocent people in both countries is below 5%. The majority are criminal, family or the result of disagreements that either side could have walked away from. (The sort of dispute that SJ mentions in his post).

In both countries the murder rate is way lower than the road death figures.

Thailand has the lowest murder rate in Indo-China. (Burma, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos). In fact Thailand is third in the whole region after Singapore and Malaysia.

Other observations:

Some murder statistics in Thailand include terrorist activity in the South, border conflicts between Thai and Burmese smugglers and fishing related murders of Burmese by Burmese but in Thai waters or just in Thai registered boats. Those figures have a significant effect on the overall figures but every rarely involve any other foreigners except Burmese.

In the tourist holiday market Thailand competes with tropical islands such as the Maldives, many of the islands in the Caribbean and other countries in South East Asia. Thailand has a lower murder rate than any of it's competitors.

The reason why there is so much discussion about gun crimes is because they are rare.

When I was last in London, six years ago, some yellow witness appeal signs were erected near the local tube station. Apparently a guy on a motorbike had ridden up to two people walking along the street and shot one through the head before speeding off. The incident did not hit national news and only got a witness appeal small write up in the local newspaper. Apparently it is common place. There were two other murders in the same weekly newspaper that needed witnesses in the same week.

Because murder in many parts of London and other large cities is commonplace it hardly gets news coverage. People don't want to read or hear about a new version of the same story day after day.

So, in summary, statistics can only give you a guide. Personal experience is probably more accurate. I have lived for long periods (more than two years each) in Singapore, London, Kuala Lumpur, Amsterdam/Utrecht, San Jose CA and Prachuap.

None of those places were dangerous if you obey basic street laws. Out of all of them I would put the two safest as Singapore and Prachuap. This is judged purely on personal experience of what I have witnessed either in progress or aftermath. The site below gives a fairly well balanced report and uses figures provided by the WHO. (That's the World Health Organization, nothing to do with Roger Daltry.)

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

One comment for the OP. There is no Mafia in Thailand. The Mafia are a depleted organization that only had any real power in Italy and the US. In both countries they have either been eradicated or they have gone into more legitimate businesses and have denounced criminal activities.

ADDED++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Four posts slipped in while I was writing mine and eating breakfast. I agree on the WL statement but my view is that holiday makers do research on the Internet and if you were considering Hua Hin as a destination you would come up with HHAD on a search almost always on the number one position.

I believe, as others have said, that the truth should be told. It is in the interest of the FCO and other countries government foreign offices to warn travelers of potential dangers. Most this is an arse covering position so in the unlikely event of someone being caught in the crossfire fire in Narathiwat the FCO can say "We told you so". These statements put people off traveling here. So I agree that we should tell the truth and show that these kind of scaremongering statement by the authorities are totally without foundation. This is especially important in Hua Hin where the largest industry by far is tourism.

All evidence I have seen is that Thailand has a low crime rate and Prachuap has one of the lowest rates in Thailand.