English pies and cakes.

[Khundon1975]

Here is one for all you expats from UK Europe.
My wife had a Coffee shop "Baan Khrai Wang" near Isarra on Nebkehart road in 2001-2004 and she made all her own cakes with High quality imported ingrediants, it got very busy with people from BKK and farang visitors.
She was on Thai TV and big write up in BK post.
She also supplied some european eateries in HH.
Due to my health we came back to uk but plan on going back as soon as we can, maybe 2009.

Her parents are having a shophouse built in 102 and she wants to start up a "cake and pie shop" again using best imported ingrediants.

We have many reciepts from my sister who has a butchers/ deli/pie shop in the Lake District (they won best butcher shop in the UK a few years ago) so expect authentic products.

My wife wants to make the same pork, steak, chicken pies as they do as well as high quality cakes and pastries etc.

The question for all you guys is this, do you thing the farang community will support such a shop, we know the Thais who have money will buy the cakes as she charged over 1000-1200bht for a 3lb cakes in 2003 and could not make them fast enough.

So come on guys what do you think???

[Big Boy]

She'll have to go some to beat JD's pies from Hua Hin Ham & Bacon. She'll certainly never beat JD for cleanliness/hygiene.

Regarding cakes, I noticed a few new cake shops selling Western style cakes when I was there last year.

You also have to compete with Villa, Tescos and other outlets in Market Village.

You could find that the hole in the market that was left when you returned to the UK has been filled several times over.

However, if the quality is as good as you claim, you may find a top end niche in the market, but you would have to go for quality, not volume. Personally, I think you could go bust within a year - make sure you don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

[caller]

How about naming the place from the lake district? There's one in Grange over Sands that is superb and a place in Windermere, Richardsons I think, that I know of that both do absolutely fantastical, lip drooling, cured meat pies. Surprisingly, I found both their versions of Cumberland sausage not so great!

My missus (Thai) loved the chicken and something other pie from Windermere in particular!

[Khundon1975]

The one in Grange-Over Sands is called S & P Higginsons in the main st and she (Pauline & Stuart) is my sister and makes all the pies and cured meats etc.

People travel from as far away as Cornwall and Scotland to stock up with their products.
The Guy who played Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, can't remember his name, drives up from London just to get a box of pork pies.

When we go there for a visit I always go to the shop at 6am to get pork pie straight from the oven. MMMMmmmmm.

They came to stay with us in Hua Hin for a month in 2002 and loved it.

It was their idea about making high quality pies etc for the expats in Hua Hin as we would be using their "Secret Receipts".
Do you think it is a good idea then?

[caller]

Well, well, well. You've already got my answer! I had to queue for a frigging pork pie, so bought a few, and this, that and the other and a huntsman - a mate did the same - he raved about that.

And none of it was cheap, but it was very busy - one side for freash meat and the other for the pies and things and a back counter? Yeah, great place. I read an article a while ago about their salt marsh lamb, obviously only available from certain areas, Romney in Kent being another.

By the by, we were staying with a load of other Thai/UK couples in a nearby holiday park for a long weekend, if we go again (it rained. Period), could you arrange a discount!

Compliments to your sister and you are one lucky brother!

But can it be reproduced in LOS?

[Khundon1975]

Well, well, well. You've already got my answer! I had to queue for a frigging pork pie, so bought a few, and this, that and the other and a huntsman - a mate did the same - he raved about that.

And none of it was cheap, but it was very busy - one side for freash meat and the other for the pies and things and a back counter? Yeah, great place. I read an article a while ago about their salt marsh lamb, obviously only available from certain areas, Romney in Kent being another.

By the by, we were staying with a load of other Thai/UK couples in a nearby holiday park for a long weekend, if we go again (it rained. Period), could you arrange a discount!

Compliments to your sister and you are one lucky brother!

But can it be reproduced in LOS?

Sorry to hear you had to queue but it is like that all the time hence his Idea to start up in Hua Hin.
I took him to the morning market in Hua Hin and he
was impressed with the pork and beef on sale there.

They have a farm as well and breed pigs, sheep and such and sells it as organic.
He felt sure that with care and quality ingrediants we can reproduce them in Hua Hin.
Many of my wifes cake receipts came from my sister and that is what got my wife on Thai tv and in the BK post so we are confident that if we target the right market we could be onto a winner.
Sorry don't know about discount

[Khundon1975]

She'll have to go some to beat JD's pies from Hua Hin Ham & Bacon. She'll certainly never beat JD for cleanliness/hygiene.

Regarding cakes, I noticed a few new cake shops selling Western style cakes when I was there last year.

You also have to compete with Villa, Tescos and other outlets in Market Village.

You could find that the hole in the market that was left when you returned to the UK has been filled several times over.

However, if the quality is as good as you claim, you may find a top end niche in the market, but you would have to go for quality, not volume. Personally, I think you could go bust within a year - make sure you don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

Hi Big Boy
Thanks for your reply.
I have bought bacon and frozen meals from Hua Hin meat and bacon back in 2002 I think it was when he was just taking over from previous owner, if it is the same chap.

I took my Brother in law who is a Q Guild Master Butcher from Uk there when they came to visit us in HH and he was impressed with his setup.

As for the hygiene thing, well in the Uk My sisters business is visited every 3 months or so by Environmental health officers and also by surprise visits from Q Guild Inspectors who go over all areas of shop and food preperation areas with a fine tooth comb.
All staff hold food hygiene certs and are very good at what they do.
I have not heard of any food inspectors in Thailand but I expect they do exist but are not as strict as in the Uk I bet.

Yes she expects to target a niche market and my wife proved in 2001 to 2004 that for a quality product people will pay a higher price.
She will not even contemplate producing for the stack it high sell it cheap market.
Tesco's and other large stores cater for mass markets as they do in Uk and their cakes cannot compare in quality.
As for the money, well the shop house is paid for and is not going to be used for living above so nothing to lose really, just their time.
Thanks for your reply, your input has been very helpfull

[Khundon1975]

Compliments to your sister and you are one lucky brother!
Hi again caller, I'm not so lucky, she lives 350 miles away, so my morning trip for a fresh pie is rare indeed.

They came down last month for a few days and they came loaded with LARGE pork, chicken and Huntsmans pies as well as loads of cured and smoked meats and fresh Black pudding.
We took some pies to my local pub as it is a tradition that the pub lays on free food for the locals each Sunday and customers also can bring in food.

They, like you RAVED over the pies and when my sister and husband went in the next night for a drink they were mobbed by customers demanding more.

Tesco and Morrisons in Kendal visit their shop at least twice a year trying to get them to supply their products but my sister would never sell through
these large multi national chains, she says "why should she when they employ 20 + in the shop and bakery dept and and sell all they can make".

That is why we feel, that if done correctly, we can reproduce savoury products for the Thai market, and we know that the cakes will sell when we were getting customers sending their drivers in big mercs all the way from BK, just to pick up 1 or 2 of my wifes cakes.
Thanks again, the bit in Blue is to get your taste buds working.

[Khundon1975]

She'll certainly never beat JD for cleanliness/hygiene.
Hi Big Boy
Sorry I miss read your post, I asumed you were writing about my sisters shop but I think you were in fact talking about any shop my wife may set up in HH.

My wife has done all the courses (3 at the last count) in the UK regarding food preperation and hygiene, at the local college here, covering things such as cross contamination of raw too cooked products via preparation surfaces and tools, storing cooked and raw products at correct temps and in seperate fridges.

Correct system for the sterilization of work surfaces and preperation equipment, correct PPE (personal protective equipment) personal hygiene etc the list goes on and on.

I have no doubt that JD's premises are anything other than spotless as are many of the other Farang run eateries but how many other eating places in HH have their Thai staff trained in even the basics of hygiene?

Who is trained to monitor them? who sets up a system within their premises that can be audited?.

The reason my wife did these courses, was so that she was qualified to install such a system, train staff and monitor all food preparation areas in any food business she may set up.

I doubt that many eating places in HH have their staff trained to such a level as this, though I have no doubt that other posters will say otherwise, if so I will stand corrected.

Thanks once again for your reply and I look forward to hearing from you again.

[Big Boy]

I didn't say that she couldn't be as good, what I said was that she wouldn't better JD's standards.

I think you have confirmed my doubts with you response ie:

Who is trained to monitor them? who sets up a system within their premises that can be audited?.

All that I am saying is that JD runs a very tight ship in respect of cleanliness. What incentive is there for your wife to do the same? The comment

who sets up a system within their premises that can be audited?.

indicates that you/your wife wouldn't be so stringent.

Maybe I have mis-understood.

[sandman67]

sorry mate

102 is a fair stomp out of town past Market Village..... too far out for me

[Khundon1975]

I didn't say that she couldn't be as good, what I said was that she wouldn't better JD's standards.

I think you have confirmed my doubts with you response ie:

Who is trained to monitor them? who sets up a system within their premises that can be audited?.

All that I am saying is that JD runs a very tight ship in respect of cleanliness. What incentive is there for your wife to do the same? The comment

who sets up a system within their premises that can be audited?.

indicates that you/your wife wouldn't be so stringent.

Maybe I have mis-understood.

Yes I think you have misunderstood. She would have them same incentive as JD in your words "to run a tight ship"

My point was, she is trained, how many Thai workers in the food industry come even close to being Trained in Food Hygiene?
Read my last post again please.

I do not want this to be a war of words about a business that it not yours and I feel we should not be discussing his business.

If you believe that most Thais working in the "food industry" in HH are complying with Health and safety Hygiene codes as strict as those imposed in the UK, then far be it for me to burst your bubble.
Thanks again for your post

[Khundon1975]

sorry mate

102 is a fair stomp out of town past Market Village..... too far out for me

Yes it is but who walks these days anyway.

[crazy88]

We shop at JD place a lot and get various products from CK via local outlets .When I fancy a pie I want it NOW rather than having it as a cooked meal so i go to La Baguette for a nice fresh snack sized pie .I will try the OP pies when they appear .

Crazy 88

[jumpjockey]

Hi Khundon

Go for it, Hua Hin is a fast expanding place and there is always room for improvements in local food outlets.

Get yourself set up and then try hawking your products around the local bars and resturants, if they are that good then of course you will have a market.

If your wife is Thai then you will not suffer the usual start up costs that many incurr. I have no doubt that your business will of course be hygenic and the funny thing is that despite some comments most people seem happy to eat from the local Thai vendors many of which have no hygene license.

Good luck with your venture.