Why the English don't need firearms - John Oliver

[hhfarang]

Now I understand why you guys don't need guns!

http://1sttube.videosift.com/video/TDS-Scamalot

[sandman67]

man I miss that show

[hhfarang]

man I miss that show

It's on here. I just watched it yesterday... that's what made me put up that post.

[hhfarang]

The "Thefts in Hua Hin" thread was turning into a thread about crimes in England and Lev suggested that discussion be moved elsewhere. This is as good a place as any since it is a thread about England and I'm a bit curious about the last couple of posts on that thread...

Dianachris wrote:

This is life in the UK .Another heartbroken mother is weeping.Her 17yr.old son is on the evening news because he has been shot dead.Was a promising young footballer,NOT associated with any gangs.People are asking why? WHY? it's a city in England,thats why.

Big Boy wrote:

& don't forget the other tragedy - they've arrested a 13 year old for the crime.

Caller wrote:

Why don't we wait for the truth to be learnt? He was very young to be out so late as was the an even younger guy that semingly inflicted the wound? The youth in some of these areas, their backgrounds in mainly the now poorer areas of London - is a whole story waiting to be told, linked to immigration and housing policy and so on. Its a much bigger picture of failure, created by politicians, liberals (hey, I once was), whatever - its failure on a grand scale and will blight the UK for many years, in all its ramifications.

Now, what I'm curious about is how can there be gun crime in a country where owning guns is pretty much illegal?

[H2ODunc]

HHF it is easy to understand. When you ban all handguns then he only people that will have them are the criminals. In every country where they have done this gun crime has gone up. The ban is normally introduced as a knee jerk reaction after a crime. In countries that allow gun ownership the rates of domestic burglary are very low due to the scumbags not knowing whether the house they are breaking into is owned by a gun owner ready and willing to blow his brains out as soon as he enters the premises.

[Wanderlust]

H20Dunc,
I'd like to see some figures to back up what you have just written, as most crime statistics which compare internationally are very unreliable because of both levels of reporting and how the statistics are compiled in different countries. My gut feeling would be that in countries where guns are more easily available that criminals are more likely to carry guns when committing a crime (because they are more easily stolen and as they are more likely to encounter citizens with guns), and also more likely to use them. Probably the levels of domestic burglary are the same, but get counted under murder, manslaughter or attempted murder statistics instead! These latter statistics, which are much more easily compared internationally, show that most countries (with a couple of odd exceptions such as Switzerland) where gun ownership is greater, have much higher murder rates.

[H2ODunc]

Wanderlust, just look at the state of things in London at the moment. Its like Dodge! There was a debate I watched on TV the other day about Barack Obama trying to ban guns. There was a mob guy on it. he said the only person that benefits from banning guns is the bad guy. The bad guy doesn't care that they are illegal. he then knows that he has the advantage over the good guy. Where it is legal to shoot burglars you find very few of them. here are a couple of links to look at but there are lots out there. As the mobster says. When Governments ban things, anything, it just means more money for the bad guys, and he's dead right

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=15304

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0794c.asp

[Big Boy]

Just a point of clarification. Dianachris said the victim had been shot. The actual cause of death was a knife wound.

[Wanderlust]

Wanderlust, just look at the state of things in London at the moment. Its like Dodge! There was a debate I watched on TV the other day about Barack Obama trying to ban guns. There was a mob guy on it. he said the only person that benefits from banning guns is the bad guy. The bad guy doesn't care that they are illegal. he then knows that he has the advantage over the good guy. Where it is legal to shoot burglars you find very few of them. here are a couple of links to look at but there are lots out there. As the mobster says. When Governments ban things, anything, it just means more money for the bad guys, and he's dead right

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=15304

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0794c.asp

H20Dunc,
I have been to London twice in the last two years, although obviously not to all parts, and I didn't see or hear a single gunshot, so I think you are exaggerating in the extreme. I have looked at both those links; the second one is a piece written in 1994, and the first one is hardly conclusive. You can get statistics to say whatever you want if you are as selective as most internet sites are. Common sense, something that is shrinking at an alarming rate, dictates that the more guns are available, the more shootings will occur, whether deliberate or accidental. More guns are available to steal and become the illegal firearms used by criminals; more guns are available to be picked up by children or those untrained in using them; and more guns are available to be used in a fit of rage when previously only a knife or fists were available. Comparisons as to the affect gun control is having or will have on one country as opposed to another is too simplistic; the US has a completely different attitude about many things when compared to the UK, but notably guns and the law. It is not just a question of banning guns but also the punishments for having them and using them should be severe enough to make it an effective deterrent. One problem in the US is that the police carry guns everywhere, whereas in the UK that is not the case and should remain that way.
The final problem with allowing everyone to own guns is that they can then become judge, jury and executioner, circumventing the legal system completely. Punishments should fit the crime, and being shot dead for being a burglar does not.

[H2ODunc]

Twice in 2 years and you are a crime expert ? I lived there for years. Before they banned all guns from the UK gun crime was a rarity. now CHILDREN are shooting each other all over the country. To say I am exaggerating is an insult to all those young people who have lost their lives over the last few years. As the mobster said. Only the law abiding follow the law, the bad guys don't. Banning anything just makes money for them. As in drugs, guns, alcohol when they made that illegal etc etc etc. Just think about the logic of your argument. Do you honestly think that the bad guys are going to stop using guns just because they are illegal ? WELL ? EXACTLY. The only way to rid gun crime is to make possession of a gun punishable by 10 years in jail. No if's or but's just 10 years!

[Arcadian]

I believe that most gun crime in London is what is termed as Black on Black, in other words gangs vying for territory or individual members trying to gain "respect".

[Wanderlust]

Twice in 2 years and you are a crime expert ? I lived there for years. Before they banned all guns from the UK gun crime was a rarity. now CHILDREN are shooting each other all over the country. To say I am exaggerating is an insult to all those young people who have lost their lives over the last few years. As the mobster said. Only the law abiding follow the law, the bad guys don't. Banning anything just makes money for them. As in drugs, guns, alcohol when they made that illegal etc etc etc. Just think about the logic of your argument. Do you honestly think that the bad guys are going to stop using guns just because they are illegal ? WELL ? EXACTLY. The only way to rid gun crime is to make possession of a gun punishable by 10 years in jail. No if's or but's just 10 years!

Did I say or claim I was a crime expert? No, I didn't, but I did live in London from birth to when I left for Thailand 10 years ago, but I didn't feel that was relevant; you said that London is like Dodge, implying gunfights all over the place, and my own experience contradicts that, as well as that of my parents who still live there, or any number of friends who still do, including a policeman. You are exaggerating. Saying that isn't offensive to those who have lost their lives at all - I didn't say there was no crime or murder now did I? I am sure that some areas in parts of London are worse than others but you should be more specific when making your posts. The whole of London is not blighted by constant gunfights and violence. And I made the very point that you did at the end of your post, if you care to read again

It is not just a question of banning guns but also the punishments for having them and using them should be severe enough to make it an effective deterrent.

Banning the sale of guns and the ownership of guns except to a very few who genuinely need them (e.g. farmers and shotguns) and making the punishment severe will mean less guns around to be stolen and used in crimes, and more expensive for the bad guys to get, both in the money they have to shell out and the penalty if caught with them. It also takes time, several years I would think, for such policies to take effect and for the supply of guns to diminish. In the US it would take several decades I should think.

[caller]

The access to guns etc in the UK is directly linked to opening up europe to those countries that were quite recently war zones, including russian satellite states where they are widely available. That and free and unfettered access across borders is the problem. Another cock-up that could have been avoided.

[Wanderlust]

Good point caller, and that must also mean that the UK's border security is being breached to bring guns into the country. Presumably they are not arriving through the ports, or if they are, are very well hidden.

[hhfarang]

Wow, this became quite the discussion while I was out digging the moat around my house!