The Gray Art of Bribery?

[PeteC]

I'm moving this one here Lung Per.

If possible, take a Thai friend with you. If Pranburi is like the offices I've dealt with, a few smooth words, good attitude and contribution to their retirement fund will get you your license....... Pete

How or where does one find the "retirement fund?" Also, do they have one at the HH Post Office? I'll gladly make a contribution if that will help me getting the P.O. Box I have been waiting for. But being unfamliar with the contribution procedures, how does one go about it? The last thing I want is to be arrested for attempting to (unspeakable word) a Civil Servant or an Officer.....

Not an easy question but has everything to do with how giving he/she perceives you to be, and how receptive you perceive him/her to be.

If you are too forward they'll wave you off with a frown, especially if their colleagues are looking on. You have to be discrete in your approach concerning what you want, and hide the contribution in whatever document you're pushing across the desk. Don't ask for change. You'll never be arrested unless someone has set you up.

The more private the better, as proven by police stops when no one else is there. Fast transaction with smiles.

It's a difficult thing for any foreigner no matter how long living here.

The best is to have a Thai friend approach the PO box person first and ask "what is the fee to expedited service...."

Take that kind of approach with everything you want 'expedited'. It puts the burden on them to respond one way or the other. Pete

[thaiorchid]

Thailand is a very corrupt corrupt country, especially the bib !! No wonder if in the farangworld it is OK as long as you are greasing your own wheels.
By behaving like Pete suggests, you are making corruption legit and even a little exotic, something to share with the other barstoolexperts.
I have been living here for 7 years and have NEVER paid any teamoney, simply because if you do your homework and follow the rules it is not necessery. If I am stopped by the police and am in the wrong-no seatbelt, no helmet or whatever, it is simple: Write me a ticket, never pay the guy in the street. Go and pay the fine, end of story.
Immigration: After paying the fee, the lovely lady :"what about me ?" I told her, you are just doing your job. Got a wry smile and "You know Thailand to well!" By my next visit the very same lady, got me past all the quees. Sometimes it helps to show, we are not all suckers.
Stopped by bib, done nothing wrong. "U-turn"!!! Could not solve it in the street, so I insisted on going to the policestation, took two minutes.
A wai and "Police sorry".
About the drivers licence. Go to Pranburi, do the test, it is not rocketscience and get your licence. Why make it more complicated ?
Sometimes I see farangs stopped by bib, and their vehicle has almost not come to a complete stop, before you see bahtnotes handed through the carwindow. With behaviour like that, we are part of the problem.
Most of us would not react like that at home, why here ?
thaiorchid

[Lung Per]

I'm moving this one here Lung Per.

If possible, take a Thai friend with you. If Pranburi is like the offices I've dealt with, a few smooth words, good attitude and contribution to their retirement fund will get you your license....... Pete

How or where does one find the "retirement fund?" Also, do they have one at the HH Post Office? I'll gladly make a contribution if that will help me getting the P.O. Box I have been waiting for. But being unfamliar with the contribution procedures, how does one go about it? The last thing I want is to be arrested for attempting to (unspeakable word) a Civil Servant or an Officer.....

Not an easy question but has everything to do with how giving he/she perceives you to be, and how receptive you perceive him/her to be.

If you are too forward they'll wave you off with a frown, especially if their colleagues are looking on. You have to be discrete in your approach concerning what you want, and hide the contribution in whatever document you're pushing across the desk. Don't ask for change. You'll never be arrested unless someone has set you up.

The more private the better, as proven by police stops when no one else is there. Fast transaction with smiles.

It's a difficult thing for any foreigner no matter how long living here.

The best is to have a Thai friend approach the PO box person first and ask "what is the fee to expedited service...."

Take that kind of approach with everything you want 'expedited'. It puts the burden on them to respond one way or the other. Pete

Thank you. Info much helpful and appreciated.

[Lung Per]

Thailand is a very corrupt corrupt country, especially the bib !! No wonder if in the farangworld it is OK as long as you are greasing your own wheels.
By behaving like Pete suggests, you are making corruption legit and even a little exotic, something to share with the other barstoolexperts.
I have been living here for 7 years and have NEVER paid any teamoney, simply because if you do your homework and follow the rules it is not necessery. If I am stopped by the police and am in the wrong-no seatbelt, no helmet or whatever, it is simple: Write me a ticket, never pay the guy in the street. Go and pay the fine, end of story.
Immigration: After paying the fee, the lovely lady :"what about me ?" I told her, you are just doing your job. Got a wry smile and "You know Thailand to well!" By my next visit the very same lady, got me past all the quees. Sometimes it helps to show, we are not all suckers.
Stopped by bib, done nothing wrong. "U-turn"!!! Could not solve it in the street, so I insisted on going to the policestation, took two minutes.
A wai and "Police sorry".
About the drivers licence. Go to Pranburi, do the test, it is not rocketscience and get your licence. Why make it more complicated ?
Sometimes I see farangs stopped by bib, and their vehicle has almost not come to a complete stop, before you see bahtnotes handed through the carwindow. With behaviour like that, we are part of the problem.
Most of us would not react like that at home, why here ?
thaiorchid

Thank you for your input. You've got a good point.

[lomuamart]

Lung Per,
On the subject of PO boxes - not corruption - I recently renewed mine and the PO were having a "clean up" of all names and who was actually using them.
The lady told me that a lot of people had moved on and not returned keys so the boxes were effectively redundant. Quite a few had been sold on privately to other users so they were checking original records as well.
Whenever I go up there, there are always some boxes that are open - maybe someone didn't lock them up properly - but it suggests that there may be some available. I would think that's even more the case as they go through the records. Keep on at them.
BTW, the fee has increased from 160THB a year to a whopping 500THB. Still a good deal. The deposit on the key is 300THB I think.

[PeteC]

Perhaps we've entered the twilight zone? Isn't there a recent thread on here preaching "who do we farangs thing we are coming here and trying to change things to our way of thinking....." Now we have a self righteous reversal?

I don't like bribery either, primarily because it costs me money. However there are certain times as exampled by LP's PO Box issue where he's probably being told "it could be a month or it could be a year...." That's when things need to be done if he wants results.

Do you have any Thai business people as friends Thaiorchid? I'm not talking about Auntie and Uncle who run a local shop, but about large scale Thai commerce where they have to deal with officials and bureaucracy on a daily basis. They couldn't exist without practicing what we're talking about on here, and they do it with a smile, a skip in their step and the words 'business as usual'. All is well with the world as they know it.

I learned about all this long ago not on a barstool but at a conference table.

However, to each his own. Fight the good fight if that's what moves you. Personally, I'm no missionary and take my lead from my Thai associates. What do we farangs know anyway? Pete

[Takiap]

Perhaps we've entered the twilight zone? Isn't there a recent thread on here preaching "who do we farangs thing we are coming here and trying to change things to our way of thinking....." Now we have a self righteous reversal?

[Takiap]

Forgot to say....................Thailand is no different from anywhere else really, apart from the fact they're a little more open about it. The same applies to "corruption". In Thailand it's called corruption, while in the west it's known as "expences" as most Brits have come to discover.

Fines for no helmet, licence, etc...........pay it at the police station and the sergent gets the money, or pay it the side of the road and the constable gets it instead. At the end of the day, what's the difference apart from the fact that the constable probably needs the money more than the sergent does.

Just as Pete pointed out.......do we try and change them, or do we let them be?

[STEVE G]

I don't know if the same thing happens here, but when I was working in Indonesia I became very familiar with a high level of corruption.
What happens is that lucrative jobs such as a shift as a traffic cop or sitting at a customs or immigration desk were actually sold on by the boss for quite a high sum of money which obviously guarantees corruption as you aren't going to pay for the shift if you're not on the take.
This goes on all the way up the chain to ensure that everybody in the system gets a cut.
If you've got spare time, the best defense against this is to drag out the process for as long as you can before you pay as the official is then in danger of making a loss if he can't make enough money to cover the cost of his shift and he'll want to get rid of you so he can try it on someone else..

[hhfarang]

I think corruption is pretty much everywhere at some levels. The last three (at least) U.S. administrations have been rife with it and it's getting worse all the time.

It's just less covert in some places and at some levels but wherever there are humans, there is greed, and wherever there is greed, there is corruption.

I'm not saying all humans are corrupt but if you get a bunch of us together and give some more power than the others, corruption will eventually follow.

[Super Joe]

Don't forget 'many' of us foreigners here participate in, contribute to, and at times willing use to our advantage corruption at some level.
We only really talk about it when we are on the receiving as non-willing participants.

Got stopped at a police check-point on Soi 88 the other week, had a beer in the centre consul thing, was only going from 94 to 88 and only had to sips, not that that's ANY excuse, my fault period. Was given the option of 10k at the station or 5k on the spot, took the latter as didn't fancy getting shut in a room trying to argue whether 10k was right or not.

Som num na.

SJ

[PeteC]

I may have told this story before? Anyway, I have/had a good long term Thai friend who runs a guest house/restaurant up on the hill between Pattaya and Jomtien. She's been in a relationship with a police Sergeant for a decade or more. He's a very nice man and full of info, good tips and help when needed.

She came to me a few years ago begging for a loan of 200,000 Baht as he needed it to buy his promotion to police Lieutenant.

They are really good people but I declined for a variety of reasons. Subsequently, the friendship is about dead.

He is more than deserving of the promotion and it's simply sad that he and others have to go about buying their lives in that way. My understanding is that he's still a Sergeant. Pete

[stgrhe]

I may have told this story before? Anyway, I have/had a good long term Thai friend who runs a guest house/restaurant up on the hill between Pattaya and Jomtien. She's been in a relationship with a police Sergeant for a decade or more. He's a very nice man and full of info, good tips and help when needed.

She came to me a few years ago begging for a loan of 200,000 Baht as he needed it to buy his promotion to police Lieutenant.

They are really good people but I declined for a variety of reasons. Subsequently, the friendship is about dead.

He is more than deserving of the promotion and it's simply sad that he and others have to go about buying their lives in that way. My understanding is that he's still a Sergeant. Pete

That's the Thai public sector in a nut shell! My wife is a civil servant and she has told me how rotten the system is. My wife, who is a post graduate, will never get a high ranking position - money talks, not the qualifications!

G.

[norm]

Depending on what it is for I look at it more as a tip rather than tea money. Lets face it most of the thais don't make that much and a tip is appreciated.

You probably don't hesitate to tip a waitress or a taxi driver. Then why should you not tip the people at immigration if they are friendly, efficient and skilled at their job. I for one find that things go extremely smoothly whenever we go to immigration. I think providing a reasonable tip greases the wheels. You might call it corruption but I call it appreciation of good service.

The only time I have been subjected to getting a ticket was when my rego sticker in the window had been expired. I was at the traffic light and a BIB noticed it and came over to give me a ticket. I did have the new one, just hadn't got around to putting it on. Showed it to him and he said 400 baht. Got out his ticket book, I ask him for it and put 200B in it he smiled, end of story. It was my error for not putting it on (but it had only been 9 or 10 months).

Now I'm sure some of you would have taken the ticket to the police station and argued with the decision in hopes of saving 200 baht, but then you might have had to pay 400baht and had all the hassle to go with it.

[johnnyk]

No need to get knickers in a twist.
It was here before we got here and it will be here long after we're gone.
Use it to your advantage when necessary and don't sweat the petty things. Better to pet the sweaty things.