Having been away from the forum for a month dealing with Mrs Sarges hiatus of stoopidity (Thai Style) I am now in a position to post again having dealt with it in a Sarge manner (please don’t post about it on this thread I will start a new thread to cover that subject later)
Whilst I have been away I have had the opportunity to discover a true gentleman and an even truer friend who was clever enough to help, advise and most of all give me the chance to forget all about my problems and to be able to go back to them with a clear mind completely unfogged.
One of the subjects that proved useful in clearing my brain was the number of girls to boys/ women to men which we discussed ad nauseum
As all soldiers that survive will tell you it is not how you shoot or aim that keeps you alive its Observation Observation Observation especially the small things and above all being aware of your surroundings
When I first came here 28 years ago the first thing that struck me / I observed was the ratio of women to men, by the third visit I was so intrigued I got a small notebook and pen and started a survey of my own stopping for 10/15 mins and counting and writing the results down in my book. My results don’t really matter but a Thai ceo/rice exporter was so incensed when I pointed it out to him he employed all his staff on it and then presented me with a huge bottle of champagne and his ratio was way higher than mine my friend HHADfan has been carrying out the same survey for a while and whereas our figures may differ the overall answer is that it is at the minimum 3/4 women to every male (do not count farangs)
I think we would be interested in others doing a similar survey and their results. So please post (please don’t deliberately screw it just because it’s ME the resident loon on the forum it is a serious question)
Whilst it is very interesting in its own right here are the questions which it has raised and which we are grappling with now and I am asking for your input
1… If your own country suddenly had an imbalance ratio of 3/4 women to 1 man how do you think it would change your countries culture/politics/individuals attitudes
2… Do you think that this phenomena has any MAJOR bearing on how ordinary people here think and act if so give an example or 10
3… If you think it does effect how the people here think and act how can we expect our politicians both our own and the Thai to be able to make sensible decisions on a fact of major difference which they do not even know about let alone understand
4… If it suddenly went 50/50 here what would be the big changes
5... if you took this into account in your daily thoughts here in LOS would it make it easier for you to understand the Thai culture and how they think
M/F ratio effects culture ?? HOW
M/F ratio effects culture ?? HOW
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Hi Sarge - welcome back. I'm pleased things are working out for you.
Regarding the ratio thing, I'm not there at the moment, so I won't vote. However, Hua Hin like most Thai resorts attracting Farang naturally attract Thai ladies in search of a mobile ATM - most of us have been trapped at some stage.
It would be interesting to remove all Farang for a year, and re-do your survey then. How many of the ladies would have moved on?
I must admit, 3/4 to 1 seems a very high ratio, even when feeding Farang needs.
Could the apparent imbalance be down to the fact Thai ladies are sent out to do the errands, whilst the men stay in their ghettos drinking whisky and servicing other ladies whilst their own wives are out and about.
It would interesting to know where the surveys were carried out.
One observation I can share is when in Hua Hin I regularly mix with my Thai family and their friends. In that environment there is no imbalance whatsoever.
Regarding the ratio thing, I'm not there at the moment, so I won't vote. However, Hua Hin like most Thai resorts attracting Farang naturally attract Thai ladies in search of a mobile ATM - most of us have been trapped at some stage.
It would be interesting to remove all Farang for a year, and re-do your survey then. How many of the ladies would have moved on?
I must admit, 3/4 to 1 seems a very high ratio, even when feeding Farang needs.
Could the apparent imbalance be down to the fact Thai ladies are sent out to do the errands, whilst the men stay in their ghettos drinking whisky and servicing other ladies whilst their own wives are out and about.
It would interesting to know where the surveys were carried out.
One observation I can share is when in Hua Hin I regularly mix with my Thai family and their friends. In that environment there is no imbalance whatsoever.
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd 
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
From
[url]www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-wo ... os/th.html
[/url]
Age structure:
0-14 years: 20.8% (male 7,009,845/female 6,691,470)
15-64 years: 70.5% (male 22,977,945/female 23,512,538)
65 years and over: 8.7% (male 2,594,387/female 3,119,225) (2009 est.)
Total: male 32,582,177 / female 33,323,233
So it is about 1:1
But if you go through Soi Binthabat in counting than there is your result. So I know where you spend most of your time.
[url]www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-wo ... os/th.html
[/url]
Age structure:
0-14 years: 20.8% (male 7,009,845/female 6,691,470)
15-64 years: 70.5% (male 22,977,945/female 23,512,538)
65 years and over: 8.7% (male 2,594,387/female 3,119,225) (2009 est.)
Total: male 32,582,177 / female 33,323,233
So it is about 1:1
But if you go through Soi Binthabat in counting than there is your result. So I know where you spend most of your time.
Last edited by pitsch on Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It may not be scientific, but this is the sex ratio of the indigenous population of Thailand according to Widipedia...
"Sex ratio
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.98 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.83 male(s)/female
total population: 0.98 male(s)/female (2008 est.)"
If true, this suggests that slightly more males are born here but they die faster as both sexes age...
Good to see you back Sarge!
"Sex ratio
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.98 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.83 male(s)/female
total population: 0.98 male(s)/female (2008 est.)"
If true, this suggests that slightly more males are born here but they die faster as both sexes age...
Good to see you back Sarge!
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
And from another demographics site, pretty much the same results; more males are born but starting during the teenage years they die faster...
Age structure:
0-14 years: 24% (male 7,364,411; female 7,095,428)
15-64 years: 70% (male 20,878,602; female 21,493,735)
65 years and over: 6% (male 1,664,113; female 2,112,757) (1999 est.)
... but fairly even overall until the older ages. This is for all of Thailand, maybe Hua Hin is an anomaly or as Big Boy suggested, maybe the males don't get out as much (at least during the light of day
).
Age structure:
0-14 years: 24% (male 7,364,411; female 7,095,428)
15-64 years: 70% (male 20,878,602; female 21,493,735)
65 years and over: 6% (male 1,664,113; female 2,112,757) (1999 est.)
... but fairly even overall until the older ages. This is for all of Thailand, maybe Hua Hin is an anomaly or as Big Boy suggested, maybe the males don't get out as much (at least during the light of day
).My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
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redzonerocker
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thailand
i think pitsch was referring to this site
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/th.html
the subject overall could seem a bit unbalanced based on hua hin as the location, especially the downtown area.
maybe the teachers on the forum could give you a better idea based on pupil numbers?
having travelled all over the north & east of thailand (inc a lot of non touristy places), i wouldn't say there was a noticeable difference in the ratio.
with the high number of statiticians on this forum, i'm sure there will be some research done.
not quite sure how it will affect or help understand the culture, but if a nation did have an imbalance of 3/4 female to male it would certainly have an impact on the manual labour market & armed forces for instance.
that would probably have cause for concern
ps nice to see you back sarge
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/th.html
the subject overall could seem a bit unbalanced based on hua hin as the location, especially the downtown area.
maybe the teachers on the forum could give you a better idea based on pupil numbers?
having travelled all over the north & east of thailand (inc a lot of non touristy places), i wouldn't say there was a noticeable difference in the ratio.
with the high number of statiticians on this forum, i'm sure there will be some research done.
not quite sure how it will affect or help understand the culture, but if a nation did have an imbalance of 3/4 female to male it would certainly have an impact on the manual labour market & armed forces for instance.
that would probably have cause for concern
ps nice to see you back sarge
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Welcome back Sarge, glad to hear you're back on form.
Agree with BB, we get a skewed impression due to spending most of our time in resorts where there's a high % of young ladies.
Also I reckon you only really see certain things despite seeing everything Come back from Market Village when it was full of old biddies and it's not in your thinking, come back when it was full of chicks smiling at you and you'll go back tomorrow to buy that light bulb you couldn't be bothered to change for the last 6 months.
Bet it's got a hell of a lot to do with whisky and motorbikes too
SJ
Agree with BB, we get a skewed impression due to spending most of our time in resorts where there's a high % of young ladies.
Also I reckon you only really see certain things despite seeing everything
Come back from Market Village when it was full of old biddies and it's not in your thinking, come back when it was full of chicks smiling at you and you'll go back tomorrow to buy that light bulb you couldn't be bothered to change for the last 6 months.Maybe that drop in the % of males is due to 'lifestyle' changes in Thai menhhfarang wrote:It may not be scientific, but this is the sex ratio of the indigenous population of Thailand according to Widipedia...
"Sex ratio
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.98 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.83 male(s)/female
total population: 0.98 male(s)/female (2008 est.)"
If true, this suggests that slightly more males are born here but they die faster as both sexes age...
Bet it's got a hell of a lot to do with whisky and motorbikes too
SJ
Just to blow the Thai govt official statistics
As i said in my OP a CEO a major Thai rice exporter got very angry with me he did the 10/15 minute survey himself then got his office staff (5 people) to do it and then his whole workforce approx 35 people and he got them to do it it for 2 weeks and his figure was either 4.57 or 5.47 to 1 (alzhiemers) either way a lot higher than my figures which i may add were over a period of 12 years
Oh and just to blow the holiday bintabaht argument all these surveys were done in Bangkok and not Patpong and as i said do NOT count farangs
All of the replys so far are based on Thai govt statistics not on what anyone has actually counted so please only post what you ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY count
Believe me when i am ready i will blow the figures you all can come up with it is quite astounding
As i said in my OP a CEO a major Thai rice exporter got very angry with me he did the 10/15 minute survey himself then got his office staff (5 people) to do it and then his whole workforce approx 35 people and he got them to do it it for 2 weeks and his figure was either 4.57 or 5.47 to 1 (alzhiemers) either way a lot higher than my figures which i may add were over a period of 12 years
Oh and just to blow the holiday bintabaht argument all these surveys were done in Bangkok and not Patpong and as i said do NOT count farangs
All of the replys so far are based on Thai govt statistics not on what anyone has actually counted so please only post what you ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY count
Believe me when i am ready i will blow the figures you all can come up with it is quite astounding
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
I would also go for about 1:1 as the stats show.
However, it's deceiving for many reasons. Some, HHF and SJ I think, mentioned that the boys die faster, kind of true, especially on the roads with the bikes and whisky/white spirit etc. Last time I checked, it was a while back though, I think in a province like Korat you are looking at at least 5-10 scooter boys dead each day on the roads, that's just one province.
If you teach at a kindergarden or elementary school then you notice that it's pretty much 50-50 boys/girls. When you get into secondary school it starts to become noticable with a few more girls than boys. Techno Colleges etc have lots of boys becoming mechanics but in higher education, unless it's a macho subject, then it's 90% women. It seems to be cultural that the girls work and get educated while the boys are allowed to rampage free without fear of anything.
Those observations are from a non touristy area.
Another angle of thought to consider is that you see way more women around because most have to work to support their families while the males often, but not not always, "slob around" and just feed like a leech of others in the background. You do see hard working men sometimes but it's a disproportionately small section of them.
For Thai women, it's a difficult choice, out of the 50% males then you can minus 5-10% ladyboys, 5-10% gay, 10% that are completely unsuitable or offer little, 5-10% playboy "butterflies", minus 5% who will die prematurely . So, we are only left with a certain amount of relationship material.
Those Thai guys that are left have the pick of the bunch and many women will be rejected because of cultural snootyness so have little chance of finding anyone. So, it is little surprise that you see so many in places like HH, if they work, whatever it is, then they will earn more money and have a bigger chance to meet someone, even a westerner. How many smoking hot women have you bumped into that it is a real surprise that they are single, confusing sometimes.
Someone also mentioned about the Thai males are not seen as much as the women, also may have some truth in it, they are around but more low profile. Once you drive out of the big cities then you'll see the 'waste of space' sat on the roadside on a beaten-up scooter everywhere. The women often get sent to work while the boys just 'hang-out'. This, however, is the "unsuitable" section mentioned earlier.
I think though that many living in a tourist area of the nature of HH could be forgiven for thinking it's 3-4 to 1 ratio. They are around but just less visible in places like HH, probably due to the fact that you have to work to be there, although there are definately more women than men here in Thailand as a whole.
How does it affect culture? Well, it's the little prince that can do no wrong while the little princess has to sort everything and get educated so she may be able to marry into a better world for the benefit of all.
This is a massive subject Sarge and could go on for a long time as there is so much to mention but I'd better leave it there.
However, it's deceiving for many reasons. Some, HHF and SJ I think, mentioned that the boys die faster, kind of true, especially on the roads with the bikes and whisky/white spirit etc. Last time I checked, it was a while back though, I think in a province like Korat you are looking at at least 5-10 scooter boys dead each day on the roads, that's just one province.
If you teach at a kindergarden or elementary school then you notice that it's pretty much 50-50 boys/girls. When you get into secondary school it starts to become noticable with a few more girls than boys. Techno Colleges etc have lots of boys becoming mechanics but in higher education, unless it's a macho subject, then it's 90% women. It seems to be cultural that the girls work and get educated while the boys are allowed to rampage free without fear of anything.
Those observations are from a non touristy area.
Another angle of thought to consider is that you see way more women around because most have to work to support their families while the males often, but not not always, "slob around" and just feed like a leech of others in the background. You do see hard working men sometimes but it's a disproportionately small section of them.
For Thai women, it's a difficult choice, out of the 50% males then you can minus 5-10% ladyboys, 5-10% gay, 10% that are completely unsuitable or offer little, 5-10% playboy "butterflies", minus 5% who will die prematurely . So, we are only left with a certain amount of relationship material.
Those Thai guys that are left have the pick of the bunch and many women will be rejected because of cultural snootyness so have little chance of finding anyone. So, it is little surprise that you see so many in places like HH, if they work, whatever it is, then they will earn more money and have a bigger chance to meet someone, even a westerner. How many smoking hot women have you bumped into that it is a real surprise that they are single, confusing sometimes.
Someone also mentioned about the Thai males are not seen as much as the women, also may have some truth in it, they are around but more low profile. Once you drive out of the big cities then you'll see the 'waste of space' sat on the roadside on a beaten-up scooter everywhere. The women often get sent to work while the boys just 'hang-out'. This, however, is the "unsuitable" section mentioned earlier.
I think though that many living in a tourist area of the nature of HH could be forgiven for thinking it's 3-4 to 1 ratio. They are around but just less visible in places like HH, probably due to the fact that you have to work to be there, although there are definately more women than men here in Thailand as a whole.
How does it affect culture? Well, it's the little prince that can do no wrong while the little princess has to sort everything and get educated so she may be able to marry into a better world for the benefit of all.
This is a massive subject Sarge and could go on for a long time as there is so much to mention but I'd better leave it there.
Resolve dissolves in alcohol
I'd say BB, more than you think. OK, if you go to Bintabaht/Sukhumvit/Pattaya etc then they are everywhere but they are also in places you wouldn't expect. Anyone who teaches will know that there are many ladyboys at all levels of school once you get out of kindergarden and there's no closet about it, it's blatant.
In the University I work at then if you look at the 'Public Health' or 'Hotel Management' courses then there are always a couple of ladyboys that can't freaking well shut up that ham it up with the drama.
How many people's other half knows a ladyboy? I went to my wifes village up near Khon Kaen and there's one floating around on a Honda Wave with no make-up and a skirt on and that's the middle of nowhere in just one village, of which there are thousands of.
I read the signs > Edge of Nowhere 35 km > Nowhere 30km > Far side of Nowhere 40 km.
I'd say about 2-3% BB along with the effeminate brigade that are inhibited so perhaps can bump that figure up.
In the University I work at then if you look at the 'Public Health' or 'Hotel Management' courses then there are always a couple of ladyboys that can't freaking well shut up that ham it up with the drama.
How many people's other half knows a ladyboy? I went to my wifes village up near Khon Kaen and there's one floating around on a Honda Wave with no make-up and a skirt on and that's the middle of nowhere in just one village, of which there are thousands of.
I read the signs > Edge of Nowhere 35 km > Nowhere 30km > Far side of Nowhere 40 km.I'd say about 2-3% BB along with the effeminate brigade that are inhibited so perhaps can bump that figure up.
Resolve dissolves in alcohol
Right I am of to bed but just to keep the night owls and foreigners over the water thinking I will give a few nuggets
1… If there are 10 golf courses around Hua Hin with an average of 25/30 caddies a day working (250/300) realize they are not walking around town to be counted
2… If my friends wife comes up with a figure in excess of 1 to 1 and mrs sarge who has never met her yet comes up with the same figure without any prompting what does that say about govt lies damn lies and govt statistics
3… If the caddies are not visable and all the Thai wives in England Ireland France Germany Sweden Switzerland etcetera etcetera etcetera are also not visible (they are already exported) and all the bar girls are sleeping how come at 10 oclock in the morning you still cant count more men than women
4… As I said please count and when you realize there is a huge difference in males and females then think about my questions I asked in the OP which is the real reason for this thread
1… If there are 10 golf courses around Hua Hin with an average of 25/30 caddies a day working (250/300) realize they are not walking around town to be counted
2… If my friends wife comes up with a figure in excess of 1 to 1 and mrs sarge who has never met her yet comes up with the same figure without any prompting what does that say about govt lies damn lies and govt statistics
3… If the caddies are not visable and all the Thai wives in England Ireland France Germany Sweden Switzerland etcetera etcetera etcetera are also not visible (they are already exported) and all the bar girls are sleeping how come at 10 oclock in the morning you still cant count more men than women
4… As I said please count and when you realize there is a huge difference in males and females then think about my questions I asked in the OP which is the real reason for this thread
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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Vital Spark
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I work at one of the top five universities, and teach about 150 students a week. Only 5 of them are 'real' men, 2 are very obvious ladyboys (and great fun), and a further 2 or 3 I really don't know. I'm really not sure whether they're biologically male or female - and I'm not going to try and find out. 
Survey No.2 - just for you Sarg . I was sitting outside watching the world (traffic) go by at around 5pm, and the vast majority were males on motorbikes - probably due to the som tam stall next door.
Conclusion: Thai males are either lazy or thick.
VS
BTW: I voted 2:1 from personal experience, but I do think that births are probably 1:1. The lasses are far less reckless, so the imbalance probably comes from mid-twenties onwards.
Survey No.2 - just for you Sarg
. I was sitting outside watching the world (traffic) go by at around 5pm, and the vast majority were males on motorbikes - probably due to the som tam stall next door.Conclusion: Thai males are either lazy or thick.
VS
BTW: I voted 2:1 from personal experience, but I do think that births are probably 1:1. The lasses are far less reckless, so the imbalance probably comes from mid-twenties onwards.
"Properly trained, man can be a dog's best friend"