A little tale of woe..

[uncle tom]

I keep in regular contact with a former staff member at the Romantic bar. Always a class above the other girls, she retired from the scene when her family's debts were sorted.

She is not one to proffer the begging bowl, although she gets through plenty of phone cards, which I buy for her...

She has a cousin who's parents were not the sharpest pencils in the box.

When she turned 15 and needed to get her ID card, she found that her birth had never been registered...

'No problem' the ID office said - go to the hospital where you were born or to the doctor who helped your mother, and get a copy of the medical record of your birth.

Her mother then told her that she was born at home without medical assistance...

She is now nearly 18 and can no longer pretend that she is under 15. She stays at home, afraid to go out, having heard lurid tales of what the Police demand of girls caught without ID cards..

Thailand being a country where everything has a price, there is doubtless a way through this - but should she attempt to obtain a false birth certificate, or simply bribe the guy in the ID office?

Is there a lawful procedure for dealing with this?

No-one at her end seems to know what she should do..

- Anyone encountered this problem before?

Tom

[uncle tom]

For clarity, it is the cousin of the girl I know who has the problem, not the ex. Romantic girl.

Tom

[PeteC]

I had a smile and all ready to give you a solution until I read the part about being born at home with no outside witnesses, (apparently).

I think at this point she needs to find out from her Mother or other relatives in what village she was born. If the Puyai of the village is still alive, or kept records, something or someone will be there who recalls the birth and hopefully the appearance of the girl before she moved away.

Small Thai village life recalls and records everything, even if events are not on the government list. Paper or people at that source should be good enough for the government now.

Remember, she's not the first here to have this problem so tell her to stay hopeful and go back to her roots as a start. If it doesn't work, yes, money can achieve all. Good luck. Pete

[dtaai-maai]

I think this is something I'd be more inclined to ask an experienced Thai rather than a bunch of expats.

[PeteC]

I think this is something I'd be more inclined to ask an experienced Thai rather than a bunch of expats.

You're right DTM, given the word 'experienced". Most would in a nano second ask for option 'B' of paying without logically thinking through the problem. I hope she can find a good Thai mentor who will guide her properly without a big price tag.

I know there are organizations in Bangkok that specialize in helping women with their problems, whatever they may be.

Uncle Tom, in this regard you could be the key in searching out these advocate organizations in Bangkok on the internet, tell the story and see what they say.

I haven't checked but I would start with a Google of 'woman advocate Thailand' and adjust wording from there until you find an organization. Pete

[migrant]

I know my mother in law, who is here in the States, has a visa but an unknown birthdate.

The visa states 1-1-40 which my wife says was a approximation.

I'll ask how she did that since she would have had to have some proof

[margaretcarnes]

I must admit I'm trying to treat this tale as a genuine one, and ignore first reactions. Because in LOS it doesn't seem to be unusual for dates of birth to be approximated.
I don't know what their law says about time limits for registering births. Certainly on some of the islands registrations can be delayed due to problems travelling to the mainland to register.
But for a girl born in a village doesn't it seem odd that the headman didn't sort things out in the first place?
Anyway lets hope a little help along the lines given earlier will solve the problem. It would be interesting to hear the outcome.

[lomuamart]

It can and does happen on the mainland. A few years ago, I was looking at either my wife's passport or ID card and noticed that her date of birth didn't tally with how old she'd always told me she was - 34 on the document as against the 37 she claims.
She explained that her parents hadn't got around to registering her birth for a few years, She was born somewhere in Chonburi. I don't know how the family got around that one, but they did. I'll ask her and report back if she understands what I'm going on about.
Of course, the forgetfulness didn't last as long as in the OP's situation.

[migrant]

My wife said it was no problem with her Mom. They knew the year so just picked a date. Her Mom doesn't remember paying any 'gift', only that it was no problem.

Once she explained, they gave her a ID, then that was used for the visa,

[uncle tom]

Thanks for the pointers.

I've established that the girl was born in the village and that there are no village records of births held by the Puyai (seems she checked this before)

Why the Puyai couldn't be a bit more helpful is puzzling me - there are only a thousand people in the village - I can't help thinking he could have trotted down to the ID office to vouch for her at the proper time..

..I'm wondering if he expects a fat fee for that sort of help..?

As far as I can establish, Thais are required to get ID cards within 60 days of their 15th birthday, so I imagine she will be liable for a late application penalty now.

Assuming that will take the form of a fine, I'd quite like to know how much it will be - if it's not too much I'd be happy to cover it - one less worry for her!

- I don't suppose anyone knows how to find that sort of information?

Tom

[margaretcarnes]

I find that both strange and concerning - aren't the village records needed for all sorts of officialdom? And national statistics?
A similar topic was discussed recently to do with birth records etc in relation to male/female population ratios. For a village of 1000 population to be lacking in birth records probably isn't a huge deal in itself, but if other villages have similar problems it can add up.
Sorry I'm really not clear on the systems, but thought all family records went on one 'paper' for each family - held in the village? Are births etc notified to Provincial offices as well?

[PeteC]

When the wife wakes up I'll ask her if she has any knowledge of fines/fees if a person is late concerning an ID card, and if she knows what needs to be done if no birth record.

Sometimes these things Uncle Tom go way beyond what we think they are or have been told they are. Thais are generally very compassionate people and many don't hesitate to take in an abandoned baby or a baby from a friend who can't properly care for it. I'm not saying this is the case here but it could be and the girl has not been told.

Actually my wife is a case in point. Her birth Mother gave her to a close friend who raised her and my wife knew nothing until it was ID card application time. That's when she met her birth Mother and luckily got her birth documents. These things do happen here more often than we may think. Pete

[BaaBaa.]

Actually my wife is a case in point. Her birth Mother gave her to a close friend who raised her and my wife knew nothing until it was ID card application time.

My GF's Mother was the same. I couldn't believe it at first but my GF tells me it happens all the time.

We're holding out for cold, hard cash for our little'un!

[migrant]

Actually my wife is a case in point. Her birth Mother gave her to a close friend who raised her and my wife knew nothing until it was ID card application time.

My GF's Mother was the same. I couldn't believe it at first but my GF tells me it happens all the time.

We're holding out for cold, hard cash for our little'un!

How much for the cheeeldren???

[PeteC]

OK, not much more to add the wife didn't know specifics except that she doesn't think they charge too much when late in getting an ID card. Not like a daily rate with visa overstay.

A far as the no birth record, all my wife could say I cannot print here concerning this girls Mother. The law is 15 days to report a birth and 7 days to report a death at the local amphur office. This then results in an update of the people in the house book.

This girl should take Momma by the hand and tell her 'fix things!!!', regardless if she is her real child or not. Pete