Expat Population + Tourists

[PeteC]

I made a factual comment the other day on here that UK residents/tourists now far out number Germans and Americans who held the top spots in years gone by.

Does anyone have current figures or gut feelings concerning the ranking of the expat resident community, and the ranking of arriving tourists?

Nordic countries must be second in the expat resident category after the UK, but probably lag behind tourists from China and possibly Russia? Pete

[Wanderlust]

This may give some guidance, as it is likely that residents stats will be similar although not identical.

International Tourist Arrivals To Thailand By Nationality At Suvarnabhumi International Airport January-December 2008
Country of January-December 2008
Nationality Number %Share
East Asia 4,337,084 44.01
ASEAN 1,321,718 13.41
Brunei 7,789 0.08
Cambodia 28,163 0.29
Indonesia 147,166 1.49
Laos 13,936 0.14
Malaysia 363,202 3.69
Myanmar 67,833 0.69
Philippines 155,156 1.57
Singapore 389,258 3.95
Vietnam 149,215 1.51
China 697,961 7.08
Hong Kong 287,474 2.92
Japan 1,058,418 10.74
Korea 607,071 6.16
Taiwan 337,980 3.43
Others 26,462 0.27
Europe 3,058,815 31.04
Austria 69,038 0.70
Belgium 59,677 0.61
Denmark 105,068 1.07
Finland 85,329 0.87
France 321,233 3.26
Germany 449,942 4.57
Ireland 59,441 0.60
Italy 126,947 1.29
Netherlands 158,913 1.61
Norway 84,296 0.86
Russia 261,461 2.65
Spain 69,896 0.71
Sweden 206,715 2.10
Switzerland 109,227 1.11
United Kingdom 668,765 6.79
East Europe 136,025 1.38
Others 86,842 0.88
The Americas 744,148 7.55
Argentina 5,688 0.06
Brazil 14,085 0.14
Canada 142,037 1.44
USA 554,358 5.63
Others 27,980 0.28
South Asia 648,282 6.58
Bangladesh 44,309 0.45
India 483,269 4.90
Nepal 19,696 0.20
Pakistan 45,540 0.46
Sri Lanka 37,164 0.38
Others 18,304 0.19
Oceania 549,952 5.58
Australia 471,472 4.78
New Zealand 76,775 0.78
Others 1,705 0.02
Middle East 422,338 4.29
Egypt 12,633 0.13
Israel 98,058 1.00
Kuwait 27,611 0.28
Saudi Arabia 12,752 0.13
U.A.E. 87,939 0.89
Others 183,345 1.86
Africa 94,053 0.95
S.Africa 35,191 0.36
Others 58,862 0.60
Grand Total 9,854,672 100.00

[PeteC]

Good stuff WL but if you look at the numbers and residents here, it's hard to relate tourists to expats. Bloody bureaucrats though, they list alphabetically rather than by number/quantity which makes study difficult.

My quick observations with the numbers is that we can forget about East Asia. Those people don't immigrate unless for work, and seldom retire anywhere but home.

I am amazed if I can include Denmark into Nordic countries, and at Sweden's numbers. I've always thought that Norwegian people outnumber all other Nordic countries in the expat/retirement category. Maybe I've been wrong given my thinking has been based upon Norwegian investment advertisement and publicity here rather than their true numbers living here. Maybe I'm right if the Swedes and Danes go home and the Norwegians settle?

Germany and the USA still add up to over a million a year but no way that relates to retirement residents. They're going elsewhere now.

India, big numbers but little retirement here.

Australia may be the wild card concerning retirement, but I'm not sure Thailand has a real source from them as their country is nice and tropical in many places. Definitely this place does not draw from them the same as it seems to from the UK in terms of a retirement location.

It seems to me the only retirement number you can relate/equate to actual tourist numbers is the UK.

A lot of numebrs to digest and think about though. Pete

[Wanderlust]

I was thinking in terms of percentages rather than numbers with my comment on being able to get some idea, but you may be right about the Asian countries not being the same. Sweden certainly has a lot of expats and tourists in Hua Hin but whether that is the same in other places I couldn't say.

[Super Joe]

Sweden certainly has a lot of expats and tourists in Hua Hin but whether that is the same in other places I couldn't say.

That's right WL, plus Skandi countries as a whole. I always found Phuket to have high number of Ities, Germans and French.

Pete, those stats above by WL, can be found by a link from TAT's website to a sub-agency department. They have all manner of different data, like numbers of tourists visitors, by nation, to all destinations around Thailand, think it's done by accomodation check-ins. So will tell you how many US visitors to Pattaya, Jomtien, Rayong etc compared to other countries.

Believe us Brits had the highest tourist numbers for all the major destinations, Bangkok, HH/CA, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, Chiang Mai etc (don't quote me on that though).

Interestingly Cha Am has far more tourist visitors than Hua Hin ...... but that's domestic and international tourists combined.

Some kind of survey was carried out in Hua Hin in 2006 (I think) and it found 3,000 expats living. Not sure how they catagorize someone who has bought a property but only comes over for 2 weeks in the year, they're more like tourists!? So pinch of salt.

SJ

[Super Joe]

The thing with the high number of local Asian countries is that there trip durations are shorter overall. So spend less money.

Whereas long distance tourist are likely to stay for 2 weeks, generalising.

The total overall 'average' duration stay for Thailand's international visitors is 9 days person.

Statto SJ

[BaaBaa.]

Interestingly Cha Am has far more tourist visitors than Hua Hin ...... but that's domestic and international tourists combined.

Cha Am is always advertised in the UK papers as a package deal, flight and 2 weeks at the Dusit or similar.

It seems to be Bangkok and Phuket which you'd expect but then Cha Am advertised more than other destinations.

[Khundon1975]

SJ wrote
"Some kind of survey was carried out in Hua Hin in 2006 (I think) and it found 3,000 expats living. Not sure how they catagorize someone who has bought a property but only comes over for 2 weeks in the year, they're more like tourists!? So pinch of salt".

That will be the difficult part SJ, differentiating between the people that come to HH for a few weeks a year and those that live in HH full time, either working or retired.

I think that it would take information from the Thai Immigration Dept, who could breakdown the numbers by visa type (working, retired etc) to give prcscct a true figure.

WL Thanks for your list, bit of an eye opener for me. I would have thought that the US with it's approx population of 240 Million compared with UK 64 Million would have been much higher. United Kingdom 668,765 6.79
USA 554,358 5.63

Maybe the lower figure is partly down to the lingering effects of 9/11, when many Americans curtailed their foreign travel plans.

Or it could just be that the British have always been very active, when it comes to moving abroad to live or retire, when you consider the numbers that have moved to places such as Spain, Australia, France and Canada ETC.

Also surprised at the Norwegian numbers.
Norway 84,296 0.86 I would have thought with their (Royal) links to Thailand, their numbers would be much higher.

[PeteC]

.....They have all manner of different data, like numbers of tourists visitors, by nation, to all destinations around Thailand, think it's done by accomodation check-ins......SJ

So, it appears the TAT is the driving force behind 24 hour immigration check-in's to drive their numbers?

It makes sense as I can't see any other useful purpose.

Let's watch to see if when a more powerful MP takes control of TAT, the 24 hours is more strongly enforced. When a 'nobody' is in the post, it goes to sleep again. Pete

[Spitfire]

KD1975 has a point, the Immigration Department stats would be more clear, ie how many OA/WP/Non immigrant visas etc get issued, would probably give a clearer picture but admittedly still not perfect.

[PeteC]

.... Thanks for your list, bit of an eye opener for me. I would have thought that the US with it's approx population of 240 Million compared with UK 64 Million would have been much higher. United Kingdom 668,765 6.79
USA 554,358 5.63

Maybe the lower figure is partly down to the lingering effects of 9/11, when many Americans curtailed their foreign travel plans.

Or it could just be that the British have always been very active, when it comes to moving abroad to live or retire, when you consider the numbers that have moved to places such as Spain, Australia, France and Canada ETC.

Don, the USA population is now 304 million. Thailand was the flavour a few decades ago but people found better places closer to home and at home, just as warm, cleaner seas etc., nothing to do with 9-11, simply practical and more economic.

Even with the baby boom people retiring now, we won't see any great renewal of Americans into Thailand.

The UK people I think want some place warm and sunny as compared to what they have everyday. You guys have done Spain etc., and seems the attraction of those places has given way to SEA. Pete

[Khundon1975]

prcscct wrote.

"So, it appears the TAT is the driving force behind 24 hour immigration check-in's to drive their numbers?"

I agree with you, what is the point of TAT doing this. I can't see it increasing the numbers. How many foreigners check into a hotel in the middle of the night. The numbers must be minuscule.

Lets face it even the most laid back backpackers have checked into a hotel well before midnight, then they get pissed and sleep on the beach.

Or am I missing the point?

[hhfarang]

Khundon,

Pete hit the nail on the head. People from the U.S. don't come here to escape the climate generally. They just have to travel to another state to do that if their winter is bad in the state where they live or go on an internal holiday just for a change of scenery including mountains, beaches, deserts, tropics, and cities with all they have to offer in every climate.

People make jokes about Americans staying at home and the low percentage that have passports, but it's because the country has so much variety to offer that it isn't necessary to leave.

It is also twice as far from Thailand as the U.K. and nearly twice as expensive for air fare. We have Mexico on our southern border which is much like Thailand and if one likes the tropics or wants to retire there, places like Costa Rica or Panama are very welcoming to Americans and much closer.

I know two or three single Americans (from the States) that come here once in a while as tourists for the obvious fun with the Thai ladies, but apart from that and one U.S. couple, I can't think of one person that I have met from the U.S. that lives here that is not married to a Thai, whereas I know a lot of British folk who live here full time that are not. It's apples and oranges really. There's little reason for U.S. citizens to come here except on the odd, usually once in a lifetime, Asian vacation.

I wouldn't be here except to make the missus happy...

[Khundon1975]

.... Thanks for your list, bit of an eye opener for me. I would have thought that the US with it's approx population of 240 Million compared with UK 64 Million would have been much higher. United Kingdom 668,765 6.79
USA 554,358 5.63

Maybe the lower figure is partly down to the lingering effects of 9/11, when many Americans curtailed their foreign travel plans.

Or it could just be that the British have always been very active, when it comes to moving abroad to live or retire, when you consider the numbers that have moved to places such as Spain, Australia, France and Canada ETC.

Don, the USA population is now 304 million. Thailand was the flavour a few decades ago but people found better places closer to home and at home, just as warm, cleaner seas etc., nothing to do with 9-11, simply practical and more economic.

304 Million Someone has been very busy. I suppose with the Caribbean a short hop away and Hawaii not too far that makes sense.

Even with the baby boom people retiring now, we won't see any great renewal of Americans into Thailand.

That surprises me considering the numbers of US military that used Thailand for a bit of R&R during the Vietnam war. Many of them would be around retiring age now.

The UK people I think want some place warm and sunny as compared to what they have everyday. You guys have done Spain etc., and seems the attraction of those places has given way to SEA. Pete True, you wouldn't catch me dead on the Spanish coast. Worse than Blackpool.

[PeteC]

.....That surprises me considering the numbers of US military that used Thailand for a bit of R&R during the Vietnam war. Many of them would be around retiring age now......

Yes, true. However you would be amazed at the number who have Thai and Vietnamese wives who don't want to come back to live here. The women are more American than their husbands now.

Single or divorced; reunions and 1 monthers suit them best as their johnson is held on by threads. Average age of the VN vet is now 62. Just so many soapies one can take.

They have adult children and grandchildren now as well and home is there.

These Veterans frolic in their memories of this place but more often than not the are very disappointed when they come and see it after so many years. Such is life. Pete