Can we trust the police at all?

[PeteC]

Below is a letter from the Pattaya Mail nwspaper, publishing week ending Sept. 10. Either this man doesn't know his family at all, or this is something each of us should be very, very afraid of. Given his time here and my gut feel reading between the lines, I think he is sincere. What a horrible thing to have happen in your life. A bit of a step up from the airport police swindles I would say. Pete
______________________
"Corrupt so called police

Editor;
Within the past two days my family and I have been totally harassed by the thieves of the Nakon Sawan Police department! My wife and son were driving back from a visit to our farm in a little town called Lat Yao. During their return trip back to Pattaya where we have our home they were stopped by the Roadside Gang (Band of Thieves) and informed that our vehicle was under suspicion from Chonburi for drug dealing. This is a new truck that we bought back in February from Ford.
They were asked to vacate the truck as police searched it and low and behold the crooks produced some type of drug that they said was (planted) in our truck. My son and my wife were both arrested and taken off to jail.
After these so called police searched our truck and found our bank book and house and farm papers they naturally assumed that we were also money laundering. I am an American that has been in Thailand for 16 years married to a wonderful Thai woman and two beautiful adopted children. The strongest drugs that I take are aspirin, my wife will not even take that and both my children are as clean as a whistle. As far as the money laundering issue, I am an engineer that still works every day and I do earn a very high rate of pay that I have directly deposited into our joint account.
Simply because I am a high earner our home is paid, our car is paid, as well as our farm. All I am trying to do is provide a comfortable surrounding for my family. I should not be punished by the local Gestapo of Nakon Sawan. In order for my family to be released the thieves requested 100,000 baht. Yes, this is direct theft because someone has enough intelligence to earn more than the Band of Thieves.
We have hired a lawyer and some type of reprimand must be taken. I myself want their jobs and open apology as well as my 100,000 baht back. I am still working in Saudi Arabia and upon my return the thieves and I are not finished, something needs to be done to stop this kind of blatant theft. Any suggestions are welcomed.
Corruption in Thailand, how can that be? I will forward this on to my local papers in the USA as well as the Bangkok Post. It is time for the people to wake up and stop taking the crap that is dealt out by the police. If the officers can’t do better to earn a living than steal from honest hard working people, then take off their uniform and put on a ski mask. At least one would know what they are dealing with up front!
Name withheld"

[loverboy44]

At first have to say i believe him and feel with him.

We, as foreigners, are a lot better on concerning things like this then the Thai's themselve. Foreigners are at least a bit protected through their embassies.

I experienced myself that even a murder was bribed before it happened and they made no efforts to find the one althought many knew who did it.
He was Thai and it happened in Hua Hin.
That's now a about 2 years ago and still nothing happened.
Just remember in huahinsimon's case the prime minister had to intervene before they got their corrupt butts up.

[JAJA]

Would I trust Australian police? No.
Is there a history of Australian poice being on the take? Yes
Would I trust American police? No.
Is there a history of American poice being on the take? Yes.
So what is different with Thai police?

[T.I.G.R.]

When someone feels protected enough to attempt this level of criminality they've obviously gotten away with earlier shenanigans and are becoming bolder because of a lack of supervision or apathy on the part of their superiors.

Apathy isn't the word Thais use, but I think most of us here a while know exactly what Name Withheld is going though and can share his angst at not being able to do anything about it.

I would urge him to thoroughly document and send the entire history of his problems to both the P.M. 's office and to someone that can bring it to the attention of the Royal Family.....I'm sure corruption of this magnitude would be a great embarrassment to Thailand and it could be dealt with if handled by the proper authority.

[PeteC]

Would I trust Australian police? No.
Is there a history of Australian poice being on the take? Yes
Would I trust American police? No.
Is there a history of American poice being on the take? Yes.
So what is different with Thai police?

OK, who was the last one on here who got shaken down by Australian, American, British or European police?

You're comparing apples and oranges jaja. Pete

[Super Joe]

Totally agree Pete. I get the impression police on the take in US, UK, Aus etc generally take advantage of criminals rather than complete innocents.

SJ

[russ]

never in the uk have i ever been asked by police for money . i cant belive how open the police are here about asking for money if there pay is bad get another job . my mate had to go to hua hin police station he was talking to a copper who said thai police are 50 years behind uk police they are like school bullys

[Wanderlust]

russ,
If there was ever a prize on here for oversimplification, you have just won it hands down! My father in law was a cop, and two of my uncles in law are cops here in Thailand, and it isn't a question of how much the coppers we deal with earn; they are mostly under instruction from their superiors to collect 'x' amount each month/week/day, of which they will get a minor amount, possibly nothing except the chance of moving up the ranks until they can be the ones determining the take, or getting a bigger slice of it. It sucks, but very often lower ranking police have to even pay for their promotions, and this seems to be common in quite a few career choices in Thailand. Even if it wasn't like this, your comment is still crass, as there are very few jobs in Thailand that pay above 10 - 15,000 per month, and a minimal number available full stop. The tax system here cannot fund the wages necessary to eliminate the corruption, so the best way to view it is as an extra tax that you might sometimes have to pay but can mostly avoid if you are sensible. The police still mostly need a reason to stop you, even here, and a smile and a good attitude will go a long way. The example in the OP sounds like an extreme case, but I can guarantee we don't know the full story. I'm guessing that prcscct was pretty close to the truth in saying that this man doesn't know his family - it is clear that he is away from Thailand a considerable amount. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we later find out that his family know some of the police involved. I hate to say it but if he really pursues this he will probably end up a lot worse off than he is now, but fair play to him if he really thinks it is worth it.

[Big Boy]

thai police are 50 years behind uk police they are like school bullys

I'm not quite old enough (but almost there) to remember UK police 50 years ago. However, in my lifetime I would not categorise the UK police as bullies. You may find the odd one, but it is certainly not the rule.

As for corruption, yes we've all read stories, but I don't know a single person in the UK who has said that he or she has been stopped in the street and asked for money by the police.

[chelsea]

Would I trust Australian police? No.
Is there a history of Australian poice being on the take? Yes
Would I trust American police? No.
Is there a history of American poice being on the take? Yes.
So what is different with Thai police?

OK, who was the last one on here who got shaken down by Australian, American, British or European police?

You're comparing apples and oranges jaja. Pete

I have been in Australia for nearly 30 years and yes, there have been times when police have been caught on the take. But nearly all cases of that involved money received from criminals to make certain things disappear or not see certain things happen.
These days there are so many checks and so much scrutiny on the Police Force that you just would not get away with it.
The same sort of control has never happened in Thailand from what I have seen, and corruption seems to start from the top (not lower down the ranks).
Perhaps if they were paid a decent wage, perhaps so much of this thing would not happen.

[STEVE G]

We have hired a lawyer and some type of reprimand must be taken. I myself want their jobs and open apology as well as my 100,000 baht back.

The last one would be a silly thing to ask for as he would then be admitting to bribing a police officer.

[russ]

so corruption is ok then in your eyes

russ,
If there was ever a prize on here for oversimplification, you have just won it hands down! My father in law was a cop, and two of my uncles in law are cops here in Thailand, and it isn't a question of how much the coppers we deal with earn; they are mostly under instruction from their superiors to collect 'x' amount each month/week/day, of which they will get a minor amount, possibly nothing except the chance of moving up the ranks until they can be the ones determining the take, or getting a bigger slice of it. It sucks, but very often lower ranking police have to even pay for their promotions, and this seems to be common in quite a few career choices in Thailand. Even if it wasn't like this, your comment is still crass, as there are very few jobs in Thailand that pay above 10 - 15,000 per month, and a minimal number available full stop. The tax system here cannot fund the wages necessary to eliminate the corruption, so the best way to view it is as an extra tax that you might sometimes have to pay but can mostly avoid if you are sensible. The police still mostly need a reason to stop you, even here, and a smile and a good attitude will go a long way. The example in the OP sounds like an extreme case, but I can guarantee we don't know the full story. I'm guessing that prcscct was pretty close to the truth in saying that this man doesn't know his family - it is clear that he is away from Thailand a considerable amount. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we later find out that his family know some of the police involved. I hate to say it but if he really pursues this he will probably end up a lot worse off than he is now, but fair play to him if he really thinks it is worth it.

[margaretcarnes]

Like Russ and BigBoy I have never ever known UK police to directly use bribery for cash. Thats not to say it never happens, but it's rare, and nipped in the bud when discovered.
I had a bit of police harrassment in the late 60's but he wasn't after money, and got nowt anyway! Then a local beat Bobby who used to call into a club I ran after hours and have a (free) drink. But this was all a long time ago, and par for the course then. Extortion in the UK these days is the perogative of the wheel clampers, not the police.
But much as I sympathise with this guy, and am sure he trusts his Thai family, I wouldn't mess with the police in his particular part of LOS at all.
Sure - it's a lot of money to lose. But he stands to lose a lot more by stirring the s....
He should maybe see how his wife feels about lodging a complaint herself, and if she is reluctant open seperate bank accounts.

[Condoking]

Whilst sympathising with the OP, in respect to the 100k Baht the first question the Police will ask is"What 100k?"

I had a friend who had to settle a bounced cheque in Dubai even though he had officially cancelled the cheque some 2 years before. He was arrested and in jail until the cheque was honoured, a mere 5 million Baht which we eventually rustled up in cash, no other payment method was acceptable, then the other party signed to release all charges against him and walked off with the suitcase of cash and a big smile on his face. When he went to a Lawyer to fight for the money back the first question was "What money?". No receipt, no paperwork nothing so no case to discuss.

Bottom line is unless you have all you receipts and paperwork in place for the lawyers etc., I suggest you just take it on the chin and accept it as part of living in LOS, the Land of Shadiness"

[sargeant]

quote the OP :I am an American that has been in Thailand for 16 years married to a wonderful Thai woman and two beautiful adopted children.:
quote:and both my children are as clean as a whistle.:

I am going to presume these kids are over 16 years old

My 17 year old was thrown out of the Sarge household on his arse he had enough crap in his bedroom (which i was blissfully/stupidly unaware of) even with constant questioning (denied of course) and talking and educating him in why NOT
had the police turned up at my door (because a mate fingered him perchance) I me umwah would probably be doing 10 to 15 in the bangkok hilton
Trust me drugs are even wose amongst kids than before Mr T
and lastly the OP will be told lie after lie to cover it up even by his missus
Blind trust or blind belief in Thais will lead one straight down the toilet

I have learnt that lesson 1.5 mil the hard way