Ok, this may seem weird, but in case it is real I want to warn others.
Coming from a country that has safety standards I tend to trust things, but I have now come to realize that I don't live in a country like that any longer.
I recently had a health problem so bad I thought I was dieing from drinking too much or one of my other many excesses (which will soon come to pass, I'm sure), but through my own research I think I have found the problem and I want to make others aware of the danger if I am correct.
For about three months I was having abdominal pains and had no energy, was absolutely lethargic and thought age and excess had finally caught up to me at 59 years old. It was really bad! I was having dizzy spells, was falling asleep during the day any time I sat down to watch TV and was generally knackered most of the time as you Brits say.
I went to the Polyclinic and had all the blood tests. I went to Hua Hin Hospital and had X-rays and tests to no avail. None of the local medicine men could tell me why I felt like I was 90 years old with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.
About three months ago, my expensive coffee/cappuccino/espresso one cup at a time machine went belly up so I went and bought a drip coffee maker. I found out quickly that making the one mug of coffee I drink a day was a waste of filters and didn't taste as good as making a whole 10 cup pot.
So.... I started making a 10 cup pot (which is really about 4 mugs the size I drink one of each day) and just microwaving a cup three out of every four mornings.
When I started having the symptoms described in the fourth paragraph above I went to the two medical institutions mentioned and got various diagnoses and meds prescribed to no avail.
So.... I started doing my own research on the net.
I found several articles that talked about lead or heavy metal poisoning, and I found a couple that warned about reheating liquids in ceramic mugs from third world countries, as they have lead in the paint; especially if you can see cracks in the finish that lets the lead seep through the glaze.
Well... I stopped doing that and after two weeks I have no more abdominal pains and my energy level is back to what it used to be. I don't know if that was the cause but if any of you have the same symptoms and are heating liquids in a locally purchased mug, be careful.
Lead or Heavy Metal Poisoning
Lead or Heavy Metal Poisoning
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
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dtaai-maai
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Just for general info, especially if someone thinks they have a blood-related problem (apparently there are no haematologists in HH)...
Your symptoms reminded me of my own to a certain extent, hhf, except that I was losing weight steadily for quite some time as well. I got the usual crap from various clinics and Hua Hin Hospital, but eventually found an excellent doctor at the Pranburi Army Hospital (I think his name was Malut - excellent English). He referred me to a haematologist at Ratchaburi Hospital who diagnosed something called haemolytic anaemia and an enlarged spleen.
(Perhaps I should have just bought a new coffee machine!
)
Your symptoms reminded me of my own to a certain extent, hhf, except that I was losing weight steadily for quite some time as well. I got the usual crap from various clinics and Hua Hin Hospital, but eventually found an excellent doctor at the Pranburi Army Hospital (I think his name was Malut - excellent English). He referred me to a haematologist at Ratchaburi Hospital who diagnosed something called haemolytic anaemia and an enlarged spleen.
(Perhaps I should have just bought a new coffee machine!
)This is the way
Interesting report HH, and I think you are absolutely right.
And I shall refrain from making humerous comments about drinking beer out of bottles instead of out of cans. The subject is simply too serious. There is good reason why we have such rules in the "developed world"
And I shall refrain from making humerous comments about drinking beer out of bottles instead of out of cans. The subject is simply too serious. There is good reason why we have such rules in the "developed world"
A friend is only one click away
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margaretcarnes
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Lead or heavy metal poisoning
Interesting one HHF. I've expressed doubts on another thread about drinking water stored in those large terracotta jars, for much the same reason - doubts over the standard of glazing.
You could well be right. When any glaze cracks - or 'crazes' like that, it becomes unsafe for food use. Some glazes aren't safe for food use even when intact, and in the West such pottery items would carry a warning label. This is most commonly found when a metallic underglaze is used. Metallic glazes contain oxides, and are meant to be purely decorative. They need to be covered with a transparent glaze, and if this 'cracks' you have seepage.
Even without a metallic underglaze, seepage can occur from the clay through cracks or, as you say, from a lead based paint. Although clearly a lead based paint is toxic, clays themselves can contain some nasty stuff.
But - a well applied clear top glaze will normally be safe, providing it is food standard, and provided it has been correctly fired (which I think is where doubt creeps in here.) When it crazes - bin it. It may be the repeated microwaving which caused the damage in the first place.
I've also heard though that reheating coffee in the microwave is itself dangerous. Don't know why - or how true it is - but will try to remember to check. Thankfully you are on the mend
You could well be right. When any glaze cracks - or 'crazes' like that, it becomes unsafe for food use. Some glazes aren't safe for food use even when intact, and in the West such pottery items would carry a warning label. This is most commonly found when a metallic underglaze is used. Metallic glazes contain oxides, and are meant to be purely decorative. They need to be covered with a transparent glaze, and if this 'cracks' you have seepage.
Even without a metallic underglaze, seepage can occur from the clay through cracks or, as you say, from a lead based paint. Although clearly a lead based paint is toxic, clays themselves can contain some nasty stuff.
But - a well applied clear top glaze will normally be safe, providing it is food standard, and provided it has been correctly fired (which I think is where doubt creeps in here.) When it crazes - bin it. It may be the repeated microwaving which caused the damage in the first place.
I've also heard though that reheating coffee in the microwave is itself dangerous. Don't know why - or how true it is - but will try to remember to check. Thankfully you are on the mend
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
Hopefully there will be next year in this new 'Bangkok Group Hospital' that's being built. Their last two recently built hospitals, similar facility size to the Hua Hin one, both have 24 hour blood labs.dtaai-maai wrote:Just for general info, especially if someone thinks they have a blood-related problem (apparently there are no haematologists in HH)...
Not easy to tell yet though from the pictures of the new hospital: http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/vi ... 325#155325
SJ
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sandman67
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HHF
Im no doctor, and have sod all experience in real life if heavy metal poisons outside the ones used in glazes (I did some industrial supply work in potteries while at Uni at Keele). Cobalt is a real laugh.... not.
but
I do read a hell of alot of history books. Heavy metals were a favorite of the Russian French and Italian court poisoners at one time. The thing is a common symptom was the fact that the poisons slowly built up, and during the initial stage of the poisoning the victim felt terrible then in the second stage appeared to get better for a while. In stage three they died. Ivan the Terrible was a good example, Charles IX of France another.
Mate what Im saying is dont be complacent - go get this checked out by a proper specialist if thats what you think is the problem. Id also get your water supply looked at and checked as these can leech in from other sources like pipes and groundwater.
Fingers crossed its more mundane
Im no doctor, and have sod all experience in real life if heavy metal poisons outside the ones used in glazes (I did some industrial supply work in potteries while at Uni at Keele). Cobalt is a real laugh.... not.
but
I do read a hell of alot of history books. Heavy metals were a favorite of the Russian French and Italian court poisoners at one time. The thing is a common symptom was the fact that the poisons slowly built up, and during the initial stage of the poisoning the victim felt terrible then in the second stage appeared to get better for a while. In stage three they died. Ivan the Terrible was a good example, Charles IX of France another.
Mate what Im saying is dont be complacent - go get this checked out by a proper specialist if thats what you think is the problem. Id also get your water supply looked at and checked as these can leech in from other sources like pipes and groundwater.
Fingers crossed its more mundane
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
Once again I find myself agreeing with a sober SM. Go and get a full blood work up HHF just to be sure. If your coffee cups were leaching that much lead, your microwave would be sparking.
Getting back to the water, take beer into consideration as well. I don't know your past habits concerning that here but there isn't any credible FDA even though we see news blurbs from time to time about them.
I'll lay 10 to 1 any water purity reports the breweries send to the Thai FDA are accepted at face value.
I think you're a wine man as well. Any old vintage in your cellar with lead seals on top of the cork?
Honestly speaking and not wanting to scare you more, I think it's something else, like hepatitis, which you could have picked up in any restaurant here.
You won't know unless you go. Pete
EDIT: Great it's back!.... I know you said you had a blood work up in HH. Go to Bangkok and do it again. I would recommend Bangkok Hospital off of Petchaburi 47.
A friend of mine had hepatitis and the symptoms which were very similar to yours. He did tell me though that once it's gone, your blood doesn't show that you had it. True or not I don't know. They scanned his liver for damage but he was in his upper 60's and a gin guy for many years. They couldn't tell what had done the damage.
Getting back to the water, take beer into consideration as well. I don't know your past habits concerning that here but there isn't any credible FDA even though we see news blurbs from time to time about them.
I'll lay 10 to 1 any water purity reports the breweries send to the Thai FDA are accepted at face value.
I think you're a wine man as well. Any old vintage in your cellar with lead seals on top of the cork?
Honestly speaking and not wanting to scare you more, I think it's something else, like hepatitis, which you could have picked up in any restaurant here.
You won't know unless you go. Pete
EDIT: Great it's back!.... I know you said you had a blood work up in HH. Go to Bangkok and do it again. I would recommend Bangkok Hospital off of Petchaburi 47.
A friend of mine had hepatitis and the symptoms which were very similar to yours. He did tell me though that once it's gone, your blood doesn't show that you had it. True or not I don't know. They scanned his liver for damage but he was in his upper 60's and a gin guy for many years. They couldn't tell what had done the damage.
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Minimata bay here in HH ??
Christ if they were solubilising that much lead the bloody paint would still be wet although some lead salts are reasonably soluble in hot water.
I reckon there may be other ingestible sources too HHF.
Don't buy anything that you are going to drink out of or eat from from China!!!!!
The excessive use of Aluminium (or Aluminum for you Yanks) in cooking in LOS is also a cause for concern.
I have also read that some cooking oils might require further scrutiny. Not sure about the product here however.
They just executed 2 blokes for poisoning kids milk powder!
There are recalls in OZ frequently for products that originate in the PRC including foodstuffs/kids toys.
Christ if they were solubilising that much lead the bloody paint would still be wet although some lead salts are reasonably soluble in hot water.
I reckon there may be other ingestible sources too HHF.
Don't buy anything that you are going to drink out of or eat from from China!!!!!
The excessive use of Aluminium (or Aluminum for you Yanks) in cooking in LOS is also a cause for concern.
I have also read that some cooking oils might require further scrutiny. Not sure about the product here however.
They just executed 2 blokes for poisoning kids milk powder!
There are recalls in OZ frequently for products that originate in the PRC including foodstuffs/kids toys.
Thanks all for your concerns.
I only drink bottled water, not the kind in the big white bottles but imported (or made by the local beer companies) bottled water from supermarkets like Minere and Nestle. I don't even brush my teeth in tap water.
Also, the Hua Hin Polyclinic specifically tested me for hepatitis about a month ago when I was feeling poorly. They also did all the normal blood tests and they were reasonably within range for my age, though I had no tests for metals as I had not found that possibility until the clinic and hospital could not identify the problem and I started doing my own research.
I may seriously consider a follow up in Bangkok as suggested.
I only drink bottled water, not the kind in the big white bottles but imported (or made by the local beer companies) bottled water from supermarkets like Minere and Nestle. I don't even brush my teeth in tap water.
Also, the Hua Hin Polyclinic specifically tested me for hepatitis about a month ago when I was feeling poorly. They also did all the normal blood tests and they were reasonably within range for my age, though I had no tests for metals as I had not found that possibility until the clinic and hospital could not identify the problem and I started doing my own research.
I may seriously consider a follow up in Bangkok as suggested.
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
Well, the only other explanation then is that you need a week in Pattaya. 
Link up with Super Joe and Rider and I'll come up for that visit and run ragged for a few days. 
Pete
Link up with Super Joe and Rider and I'll come up for that visit and run ragged for a few days. Pete Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Oh, and Pete, I've known about the wine thing (the bottles with the lead foil on top) for years and have always peeled the foil completely off and washed the top of the bottle before pulling the cork.
As for beer, I guess I trust it's purity. Maybe that's a mistake. What I don't do is drink directly out of cans, in fact I only buy bottles when available and when I'm forced to buy cans, I ask for a glass. The only time I've ever drank directly from a beer can here is on the golf course when that's all I could get and they had no glass. Then I wipe the top of the can with a cloth before I open it.
Whatever was causing my symptoms could be something entirely unknown still, but as I said, when the hospital and Polyclinic couldn't figure it out and I was desperate and started looking up my symptoms on the web and one of the things I kept running across were warnings about reheating liquids in ceramic mugs. The mugs I was using came from Index and indeed, the finish had cracks all over like a spider web. Plus, the microwave we have instructs to put a metal spoon into a cup when heating a liquid which I was doing with some kind of locally bought spoon made of who knows what.
Now I'm reheating the coffee in a Pyrex cup with a stainless steel spoon that was brought here from the U.S. just to be on the safe side. I think I'm going to go ahead and take in my espresso machine for repair so I can stop using the microwave altogether.
My wife just reminded me that besides the abdominal pain, dizziness, and exhaustion, my skin also had an unhealthy grayish look to it and she says that now my normal color has returned.
As for beer, I guess I trust it's purity. Maybe that's a mistake. What I don't do is drink directly out of cans, in fact I only buy bottles when available and when I'm forced to buy cans, I ask for a glass. The only time I've ever drank directly from a beer can here is on the golf course when that's all I could get and they had no glass. Then I wipe the top of the can with a cloth before I open it.
Whatever was causing my symptoms could be something entirely unknown still, but as I said, when the hospital and Polyclinic couldn't figure it out and I was desperate and started looking up my symptoms on the web and one of the things I kept running across were warnings about reheating liquids in ceramic mugs. The mugs I was using came from Index and indeed, the finish had cracks all over like a spider web. Plus, the microwave we have instructs to put a metal spoon into a cup when heating a liquid which I was doing with some kind of locally bought spoon made of who knows what.
Now I'm reheating the coffee in a Pyrex cup with a stainless steel spoon that was brought here from the U.S. just to be on the safe side. I think I'm going to go ahead and take in my espresso machine for repair so I can stop using the microwave altogether.
My wife just reminded me that besides the abdominal pain, dizziness, and exhaustion, my skin also had an unhealthy grayish look to it and she says that now my normal color has returned.
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
I hear you. If you did the tests, you did the tests. Sometimes thinking too much about things like this can be worse for the system than what you think you had/have.
I'm gray all the time also, hair as well. I go out and sit in the sun and I turn red. Next morning I'm gray again and the wife smacks me in the head to make sure I'm not dead. I came to Thailand for this? My ex-wives were more kind, they were on their way to the bank before I woke up, and it took me years to wake up.
Go the the HHAD picnic at Terry's this Saturday, shake it off and enjoy. Do the metal tests later though just for the hell of it.
Pete
I'm gray all the time also, hair as well. I go out and sit in the sun and I turn red. Next morning I'm gray again and the wife smacks me in the head to make sure I'm not dead. I came to Thailand for this? My ex-wives were more kind, they were on their way to the bank before I woke up, and it took me years to wake up.
Go the the HHAD picnic at Terry's this Saturday, shake it off and enjoy. Do the metal tests later though just for the hell of it.
Pete Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
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sandman67
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the other way to think about things mate is this:
Your body is not a temple....its battered up but roll cage reinforced destruction derby car. Whatever god it is you believe in put you inside one of the finest bio-mechanical vehicles he could provide. Really.... we are waliking wonders of self repairing machenery.
However... hevy metals ( and I do think you possibly have an attack of hypocondria) are NOT stuff to mess with.
Go get some professional bloodwork care of BKK and make your mind up afterwards. This isnt stuff Id mess about with....and Im a lot less responsible that you are.
If you need an incentive .... the third stage of heavy metal poisoning sees you droolling into your lap, you loose your memory and cognitive ability fast, and you potentailly die bleeding from your eyes and nose and arsehole. Get it really bad and you piss blood from your skin pores.
Chin chin mate..... its probably a roto-virus or something bio nasty rather than lead. A food passed robust roto-virus is your most probable suspect. sits about for yonks just kicking the crap out of your body from time to time.
Dont worry too much.... like I said we are inside the best bio-mechanical bodies 20,000 years of evolution can design. 80% bombproof self repairing wonders.
And if you do pop it,,,,, Ill have your garden
Your body is not a temple....its battered up but roll cage reinforced destruction derby car. Whatever god it is you believe in put you inside one of the finest bio-mechanical vehicles he could provide. Really.... we are waliking wonders of self repairing machenery.
However... hevy metals ( and I do think you possibly have an attack of hypocondria) are NOT stuff to mess with.
Go get some professional bloodwork care of BKK and make your mind up afterwards. This isnt stuff Id mess about with....and Im a lot less responsible that you are.
If you need an incentive .... the third stage of heavy metal poisoning sees you droolling into your lap, you loose your memory and cognitive ability fast, and you potentailly die bleeding from your eyes and nose and arsehole. Get it really bad and you piss blood from your skin pores.
Chin chin mate..... its probably a roto-virus or something bio nasty rather than lead. A food passed robust roto-virus is your most probable suspect. sits about for yonks just kicking the crap out of your body from time to time.
Dont worry too much.... like I said we are inside the best bio-mechanical bodies 20,000 years of evolution can design. 80% bombproof self repairing wonders.
And if you do pop it,,,,, Ill have your garden
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."