Military Helicopter crash

[Nereus]

This has been in the news for a few days. Tragic course of events, but makes me wonder about just what training level the armed forces have. I also wonder why they had to call in the Royal Agricultural Department aircraft to recover the victims?
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Army holds out hope for crash soldiers

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... h-soldiers

The army holds out a slim hope that some of the nine people on board a military Black Hawk helicopter that crashed on Tuesday are still alive.

Army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said there was a chance some of them had not perished because the helicopter's emergency location transmitter had not sent out signals as it was supposed to do after a crash.

He said that could mean the chopper had not come down hard, leaving some hope of survivors.

The army has sent two patrol teams to search for the Black Hawk and possible survivors and Burmese troops are assisting them, he said.

The helicopter crashed during an operation to retrieve the bodies of five soldiers who died in another helicopter crash near the border on Saturday. Their bodies were retrieved from Tanaosi mountain at 3pm yesterday.

The two search teams will begin from two different spots and move toward the area where the army suspects the helicopter crashed.

A military-operated global positioning system has shown that the helicopter lost contact when it was flying over the Burmese town of Myeik (Mergui).

The town is located in the extreme south of the country on the coast of an island in the Andaman Sea.

[Spitfire]

Yeah, it's hit the news here big time, their own 'Blackhawk down' story so to speak despite the seriousness of the situstion.

The news channels have given a lot of coverage to it, mainly due to the remoteness of the location, plus the mission they were on to deal with illegal loggers etc, hero stuff. The area is pretty remote and the wet season sure throws up some adverse conditions.

Perhaps, also the the fact that the bodies have been found with great difficulty, and in a condition that is less than palatable, may have added to the story.

The 'top-and-tail-of-it' is that these things come down sometimes and need to be maintained to the highest degree and even then they still sometimes come down, happens to the Americans too in other places/adventures.

I'm not sure if the Blackhawk helicopters the Thais have are the same as the US ones other than in appearance, as I would doubt that the Thai ones have the same radar/electronics as the US ones as the US often doesn't sell the electronics in the planes/helicopters or the buying country doesn't have the money to be able to afford them if the US is willing to sell. Many places are just after the engines, primarily.

Maybe one of the plane experts can confirm on that one, but that would be my guess, but happy to be corrected.

[STEVE G]

I don't know exactly what Thai Blackhawks are supplied with but I should imagine that they're just basic troop carriers without many of the type of advanced avionics that some models are equipped with and they probably don't carry any type of radar that you normally only get on maritime or special operations variants.
Flying around mountainous areas in marginal weather and restricted visibility is a demanding exercise and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't just simply fly into a hillside.

[PeteC]

Update:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/07 ... 60872.html

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... all-search

[Nereus]

According to reports they have already stated that the first crash (Huey), flew into the hillside, and as Steve has written, it is the more probable cause of the Blackhawk accident as well.

But the fact remains that you do not need 20 Million Baht radars to see that the weather is bad. But you do need the mentality and attitude, plus training, to decide when to go or not. This type of accident has happened here many times, the last one just a few months ago involving an Agriculture Department aircraft.

Again from what has been reported, it would appear that the aircraft involved on the first mission was not attending some dire emergency, just carrying out some routine task. But some higher up general, sitting in his comfortable office nowhere near the scene, has ordered the operation, and lower down the chain will blindly "follow orders". We will never know the true reasons, as what ever happened will be covered up. Sad.

[PeteC]

We've never heard the final investigation result of the two F-15 crashes during Cobra Gold as well. No doubt a mid-air, but too much face loss to report it. Pete

[poosmate]

First Area Army commander has increased the number of search units for Black Hawk by 60 and added 20 donkeys. TAN news

Good to see some specialists are being drafted in

[Nereus]

Missing Black Hawk found

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... hawk-found

The crashed army Black Hawk helicopter has been found near the site where the Huey helicopter crashed on Saturday, Kaeng Krachan National Park deputy chief Teerapat Prayulsit said Friday.

Mr Teerapat said the search team had ordered body bags, face masks, life-saving equipment and ropes for the nine people on board the Black Hawk that crashed into the forest across the border in Burma on Tuesday.

The search team had so far found one of the nine people but could not yet identify the victim, reports said.

The coordinate of the crash site was NQ 251126 - about 500 metres from Saturday's helicopter crash or about 300 metres into the Burmese border.

The Black Hawk had been on a trip to retrieve bodies of the five soldiers killed in Saturday’s helicopter crash.

The five were on a mission to rescue a military-forestry task force and journalists who were investigating forest encroachment in Kaeng Krachan but were trapped by bad weather.

[Nereus]

All nine dead in Black Hawk crash

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... hawk-crash

Phetchaburi – The eight soldiers and the TV cameraman aboard the crashed Black Hawk helicopter are all dead, 1st Army commander Udomdet Seetabut said, describing the tragedy as a "great loss".

Their bodies had been found shortly after searchers found the helicopter's wreckage late Friday morning, about 300 metres inside Burma on the edge of Kaeng Krachan National Park.

Rescuers were carrying their bodies to an area adapted as a temporary helipad for airlifting out of the forest on the mist-clouded Tanaosi mountain.

The team face an even harder job than rescuers encountered in extracting and moving the bodies of the five soldiers killed in the first helicopter accident only a short distance away, Lt-Gen Udomdet said. It was further away.

On July 19, the Black Hawk helicopter flew to the rain-soaked mountain to retrieve the bodies of the five soldiers killed in the July 16 crash of the helicopter which had been tasked with lifting out rangers, officials, journalists and an arrested forest encroacher stranded in the forest since July 11.

The Black Hawk flight met the same fate.

Among the nine dead are Surasi Task Force commander Maj Gen Tawan Ruangsri and Sornwichai Khatannukul, a cameraman with the TV Channel 5 army station.

[Spitfire]

There is TV footage being played on the Thai news of about 30 minutes before they went down in the Blackhawk.

It appears that they may have been a bit too 'gung-ho' in their rescue attempts and perhaps threw caution to the wind a little in their rush to get to the first crash site of the Huey.

It appears that the second helicopter was advised that it shouldn't go, despite it appearing calm at the take-off site, as the storms in the crash site area had not subsided properly plus the rain making aircraft were around seeding clouds etc.

The decision to go was probably a personal one of an officer present. Commendable, but perhaps not wise.

Even US Air Force planes are grounded by weather sometimes. This is the season for unpredictable weather too.

Also, I'm not sure that a troop taxi style helicopter like the Blackhawk makes a very good rescue chopper in adverse conditions anyhow, guess that's why they made the Sea King and others.

[Spitfire]

Thai TV news is reporting another helicopter has come down about 25 minutes ago, crash site located and still burning, no details on casualties or whether it was military or civilian yet though.

[PeteC]

Sunday 1000 hours. Stayed tune on this, a Thai neighbor just told me #3 went down a few minutes ago in the same area. Cannot confirm from any media yet. Pete

[Spitfire]

TV is saying that it was a military helicopter and there are 9 dead and one survivor, not a Blackhawk but a Bell 212 this time.

Edit - Initially they said 3 but now 9 dead so edited the post accordingly.

[STEVE G]

BANGKOK (AP) — A third Thai military helicopter has crashed near the country's forested border with Myanmar in just over a week, killing three soldiers Sunday and bringing the toll from all three accidents to 17.

Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Thanathit Sawang told The Associated Press that the Bell 212 chopper went down during a mission to retrieve bodies from an earlier crash on Tuesday.

Weather conditions were normal at the time, and initial indications were that an instrument in the chopper's tail which controlled aircraft movement malfunctioned, Thanathit said.

Two military pilots and two mechanics were on board, he said, and one survived.

Thai television stations broadcast images of the smoking helicopter in flames and reported that villagers took the survivor to a hospital in Kaeng Krachan district, where a densely forested national park is located.

Two other Thai military helicopters crashed in bad weather the same over the last eight days.

The first crash, of a Huey chopper on July 16, killed five troops. Then on Tuesday, a Black Hawk helicopter sent to retrieve bodies went down in the same remote area, killing eight soldiers and one television cameraman.

[Nereus]

An "instrument" in the tail, uh? I suppose that is better than saying some "black magic" exists in the area that feeds on helicopters, which is about what was to be expected next.

An old and well proven design of machine, that has a world wide reputation for reliability, something that cannot be said of the people making the claim.