Thread to post pre and post release info and pros and cons on Windows 8:
Microsoft removes start button in Windows 8
By Lance Whitney | CNET.com – 5 hrs ago
Say goodbye to the Windows start button. Microsoft has gotten rid of it from the latest build of Windows 8.
Hitting the Web over the weekend, screenshots of the new Windows 8 build display the "super bar," but without the start button orb on the left, according to The Verge. Build 8220 will be the final version released before the beta, now known as the Consumer Preview, debuts before the end of the month.
Until its untimely (or timely) death, the Windows 8 start button located in the Metro UI offered access to the search, share, devices, and settings panels. The Windows start button in the desktop simply returned you to the Metro UI.
To replace the start button, Microsoft will reportedly turn that space into a hot corner, sources told The Verge. Hovering your mouse or swiping your finger over that spot will bounce you back and forth between the Metro UI and the desktop in an attempt to offer a more consistent experience between the two environments.
Fans of the traditional start button may not be happy. But The Verge believes the move is final given that Microsoft has been chewing on this decision for awhile. On the plus side, the super bar will retain its Windows 7 functionality as home to pinned shortcuts for launching your favorite desktop applications.
Related stories from CNET.com
* Will Windows 8 ARM devices offer a limited desktop interface?
* Microsoft defends its Windows 8 Metro Start screen
* Feedback prompts Windows 8 file management tweaks
Windows 8 will also sport an enhanced "charms bar," a group of transparent icons that provide access to key features, added The Verge.
The charms bar can actually fill in as a replacement for the defunct Metro UI start button by offering links to the search, share, devices, and settings panels.
A number of Microsoft users have expressed concern over Windows 8's reliance on the Metro UI and touch-based input. PC users in particular have complained that the new UI doesn't lend itself as easily to navigating via conventional mouse and keyboard, at least as seen in the current Developer Preview.
Acknowledging the concerns and tweaking some aspects of Windows 8 in response, Microsoft has promised that the new Consumer Preview will be more user friendly for traditional desktop users.
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
Through my work I have got some hands on with win8. The push heavily on the same user interface for both PC and mobile. Well of that I have seen it is no good user interface without a touchscreen.
So they expect that every PC will have a touchscreen in a few years.
I am not sure I would like to have a touchscreen interface on my desktop monitor. A part from that it will make the screen a mess I also do not think it will be very ergonomical ti have to reach for the screen all the time. Maybe with a small extra screen like an iPad it such placed on the workspace closer to me.
Even Ubuntu has a UI that is tablet oriented. Either the decision makers behind win 8 and Ubuntu (and others) have bet the farm type data that says that tablets will replace PCs for the bulk of the OS market or a few years from now we'll find out how easy it is to remove the tablet oriented UI.
I expect those who transition from XP to 8 will have a TOUGH time. XP to Win 7 is bad enough. Only reason I have that is XP won't talk to the hardware on my nEtbook and there a couple apps I want badly enough to put up with windows.
Excuse me while I go off on a rant here. Programmers that started before windows 3.1 was released spent most of their time on the keyboard, using the mouse to resize windows. Continued to do so through Win 7 (developers didn't switch to Vista if they could help it). Back in those days there was a high correlation between how good a developer was and how little he touched the mouse during a job interview. Now there are things that used to have keyboard shortcuts that can only be done with the mouse. And thats in Linux! Jeeze. Welcome to finger painting as GUI. It's ok for my phone, but real men use keyboards. End of rant.
I think the problems with unifying the desktop and tablet OS are pretty obviously apparent and bound to be ignored by everybody in the UI design process.
When you have a keyboard and mouse the touchscreen should be viewed as an additional input method, as opposed to an alternative. There are the odd time where I think 'ah yea wouldn't it be useful if I could just touch that part of the screen to do x,y and z?'. Touch a window to bring it to the front, for example. That would be a useful addition to an already comfortable system. Using the monitor as a primary input device just isn't ergonomic with it being positioned directly opposite your eyes, as opposed to at an angle like with a tablet.
Trouble is; touch screens are 'cool'. And like every 'cool' technology they're likely to end up being used in entirely inappropriate situations.
Homer wrote:Welcome to finger painting as GUI. It's ok for my phone, but real men use keyboards. End of rant.
Absolutely, tablets are great gimmicks, great for entertainment, gaming, and showcasing the odd slideshow or presentation but their usefulness and productivity ends there IMO. Those that need a computer for real work such as programming, writing, researching, editing, designing etc will need a keyboard.
Microsoft are simply playing catchup with all this touchy feely malarkey.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Homer wrote:Welcome to finger painting as GUI. It's ok for my phone, but real men use keyboards. End of rant.
Absolutely, tablets are great gimmicks, great for entertainment, gaming, and showcasing the odd slideshow or presentation but their usefulness and productivity ends there IMO. Those that need a computer for real work such as programming, writing, researching, editing, designing etc will need a keyboard.
Microsoft are simply playing catchup with all this touchy feely malarkey.
Yup - any screen that needs a strange little pen thing to drive it - count me out I'm afraid. I could see a netbook maybe being handy in some ways - decent keyboard size - but they are still surprisingly heavy for regular portable use IMO. Even tablets maybe aren't as portable as some users had hoped? I still see many more Blackberry users out and about than tablet toters - probably because it's a handy little 'one stop shop' gadget. (Or is it - now that there's Kindle as well.)
Very strange how new technology can actually now see us carting around 3 or 4 bits of IT kit we never even knew we needed
And the fact that it will run on crusty old archaic hardware means that even hhfarang maybe able to give it a try!
WooHoo!!!!!
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
"Microsoft Announces Availability of Windows 8 Consumer Preview
1 March, 2012 | Sydney, Australia"
Microsoft Corp. today (in Barcelona, Spain) announced the availability of the Windows 8 Consumer Preview — the next milestone of the Windows operating system. This latest preview will be made available for download starting today. The Windows 8 Consumer Preview offers a more robust experience for testing the world’s most popular operating system and is available to the widest range of people yet following the initial release of the Windows 8 Developer Preview late last year. The Developer Preview received more than 3 million downloads.
“With Windows 8, we reimagined the different ways people interact with their PC and how to make everything feel like a natural extension of the device, whether using a Windows 8 tablet, laptop or all-in-one,” said Steven Sinofsky, president of the Windows and Windows Live Division at Microsoft. “The Windows 8 Consumer Preview brings a no-compromises approach to using your PC.”
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
Although the install was quick and painless and all the drivers seem correct, the Metro UI is awful. I've been using and writing code for Windows since v 3.1, and this is a huge change that is absolutely counter intuitive to long term Windows users. MS will have to make 'classic mode' easily available if they expect anyone to upgrade. On the plus side, resource use is much lighter than Vista, and it's as fast on the old laptop I use for things like this as XP was. IF I were using Vista and IF MS made a classic UI available, I would upgrade. Resource usage is that much better than Vista. (Admittedly I haven't spent much time with Win 8, but Vista bogged the laptop down like you wouldn't believe and I had to downgrade to XP.)
But Metro - even simple things like closing apps or turning off the computer aren't obvious. I'll play around with it - I'm hardly a Luddite - but this Metro stuff really feels like a mistake, and I haven't found a Help app or an 'Introducing Win 8' or anything to ease the transition.
This seems like an odd reversal for MS - the guts seem solid and fast, and the UI is ugly as hell and hard to use.
"We're all living proof nothing lasts" - Jay Farrar
HHADFan, I know a little about your skill level and I think you are a good one to beta test this. Please let us know more after you have played with it for a while.
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
i have a new asus transformer prime (android 3.2) that has a dockable keyboard (with extra battery and USB port in keyboard). I find it most excellent. Obviously, you can use it just as a tablet, but with the keyboard attached, then you can use whatever is the easiest method to use. point or use the trackpad or mouse (havnt tried a mouse yet, but cant see why it shouldnt work).
however, someone above noted that while it works ok sat in a deck chair, in front of the TV or in bed, touch screens wont be much use in a work environment with 23 inch or bigger screens, as you sit too far away to reach them. 23 inch monitors now start at about 4000 baht, so are not expensive - and 2 next to each other are very easy to set up - making touch even less likely.
I see there being a divergence between tablet orientated systems and desktop systems in the near future. What is useful for one may not be useful for the other. Almost a question when powering up a machine as to whether you want to use a touchscreen or not....
Last edited by fft100 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
