'No room for corruption'
"Prayuth vows to dump ministers who fail to perform; Cabinet list awaits royal endorsement"
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobi ... 42116.html
Thai govt: 'No room for corruption'
Thai govt: 'No room for corruption'
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
Re: 'No room for corruption'
So, do you believe it?
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd 
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Re: 'No room for corruption'
Not really, but with this new leadership, I guess anything is possible.
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
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theprice01
- Professional
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Re: 'No room for corruption'
i hope it does happen, but i think will take many years for Thailand to be 100% corruption free :/
When nosy expats ask how can i live here without working, i reply, 'well, while you worked hard for 50 years, i worked smart for 5 years' 
Re: 'No room for corruption'
The words are easy when you are sat in your ivory tower. They may be achievable down to middle class Thais also. However, what about the people at the bottom rung of the ladder? Some do it for greed, but many do it to make their lifestyle affordable.
We are talking a huge change here. Many wages would have to increase to eliminate temptation, but you'll not stop the greedy very easily.
We are talking a huge change here. Many wages would have to increase to eliminate temptation, but you'll not stop the greedy very easily.
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Re: 'No room for corruption'
There isn't a country in the world that is anything close to 100% corruption freetheprice01 wrote:i hope it does happen, but i think will take many years for Thailand to be 100% corruption free :/
Human nature is human nature. Greed is part and parcel of life.
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Re: 'No room for corruption'
Even if they start with those at the top it's worth applauding. 30% creamed off every government project is a sizeable saving.
Re: 'No room for corruption'
If you start at the top you're only creating a temporary solution.MrPlum wrote:Even if they start with those at the top it's worth applauding. 30% creamed off every government project is a sizeable saving.
I can imagine many people who started out in incredibly underpaid jobs started taking bribes and telling themselves that "if I get to the top, I'll go clean". But by the time they get there, corruption is so embedded into their dna it's a part of them. They will have seen it all around and everywhere and will have long since succumb to "if you can't beat them..."
They take out a bunch of corrupt officials then who's going to replace them? Another bunch of corrupt officials...
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Dannie Boy
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- Location: Closer to Cha Am than Hua Hin
Re: 'No room for corruption'
I know it's a big if, but if you can get rid of corruption at the top then those they put in place can then make sure it permeates downwards. Will it happen, who knows, but on a rare occasion that I agree with Mr P, it's worth trying.Pleng wrote:If you start at the top you're only creating a temporary solution.MrPlum wrote:Even if they start with those at the top it's worth applauding. 30% creamed off every government project is a sizeable saving.
I can imagine many people who started out in incredibly underpaid jobs started taking bribes and telling themselves that "if I get to the top, I'll go clean". But by the time they get there, corruption is so embedded into their dna it's a part of them. They will have seen it all around and everywhere and will have long since succumb to "if you can't beat them..."
They take out a bunch of corrupt officials then who's going to replace them? Another bunch of corrupt officials...
Re: 'No room for corruption'
If it will ever happen it gonna take many generation and I will not see it in my life,I think.
You must start in the top to show you mean it and start pay some decent salery and change the attitude
that people in public jobs have,here it seems that you are pain in their a.s the moment you step in to the office.
You must start in the top to show you mean it and start pay some decent salery and change the attitude
that people in public jobs have,here it seems that you are pain in their a.s the moment you step in to the office.
Re: 'No room for corruption'
Yes, it's very commendable, presumably without corruption there will be a considerable drop in the defence budget for next year and they won't now need that 5% increase that was announced the other day.MrPlum wrote:Even if they start with those at the top it's worth applauding. 30% creamed off every government project is a sizeable saving.
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Dannie Boy
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- Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:12 pm
- Location: Closer to Cha Am than Hua Hin
Re: 'No room for corruption'
You can only tackle corruption from the top down - if you started at the bottom, they would look up to their bosses and see they are still on the take and revert to normal. If you can eradicate it at the top (in this culture a very difficult task), it is then possible for the bosses to put checks and balances in place to get rid of it below. Making it happen though, is an all together different challenge, but I wish them well.
Re: 'No room for corruption'
Corruption is always a 'can-of-worms' thread, so might as well comment properly, just my opinion though, so here goes..........
Those at the top can say this as they, their close family and probably their gardener are already loaded (more than likely) through less than straight ways. There is obviously corruption in all countries but with a country like this it is so ingrained into the fiber of the most minute corners of absolutely everywhere...it's going to be pretty much impossible to do much about in the short and medium term. Starting at the top maybe their only option as starting at the bottom would be futile.
The other problem is that you have low level mafia groups and families that control the distribution of everything from fuel delivery to match sticks, even those water distribution machines on the street have unofficial regulations from the gang that controls that service and area (such as you can't have more than three of them without their permission and guess that means their 'cut'). The guys that sell the 20 baht flowers at the traffic lights have a shirt on like a motorbike taxi driver and they have to pay someone a cut who "owns" or is the boss of that junction everyday.
I think if they can stop/reduce the corruption by government officials and in government spending projects like road repairs etc. then it would be a start and make a decent difference. This train line that has been approved must have every 'tin-pot-hat' governor and his cronies rubbing their hands together in glee, that the train route goes through, at the prospect of such an opportunity to trough and feast off such an easy 'low hanging fruit' target. This is the kind of stuff that might be possible to change.
As for the middle classes and others, I fear there are simply too many temptations that modern life offers, requires or dangles in front of them for them to take the moral high ground and say "No." When the corruption starts in school (sometimes even kindergarden) with kids and all the things they now 'must have' so much earlier in life, which without, they believe they are judged as poor or inferior (14 year olds without a smart phone for example) then it's going to be very hard to free people of their addictions to the material world, which demands people to have so much more money than they can offer up. This thirst is currently fed (as it's the most easy way) through debt, greed, theft and the sale of land and all four are unsustainable really....could be proplems brewing in the future, not the imediate future but in about the 15-20 years or so time as the feeding frenzy will have to end sometime.
Until the rule of law is more convincingly applied in general and people see justice being done (in a blind fashion), and see social justice in action generally with the threat of sanctions on you for misdeeds (that you can't buy your way out of), then little will change imo. If it did change then there can (and slowly there would) be more considerate and responsible people in a society where virtue is rewarded at all levels and not mocked, then corruption will decline. Until this happens then the present indifferent 'dog eat dog' ways of doing things will continue to highly influence the attitude of the majority.
It's interesting to see the Chinese are attempting to do this with their crackdown on corruption as they see that the 'writing is on the wall' for them too. What they are doing is going after the big guys too......perhaps Thailand could learn a little from this, as that's what's needed, because the corruption monster is a mighty one to tame even a bit due to it being so firmly entrenched in Asian societies.......probably all stems from the lack of any social security provisions over a long time and it all being literally a matter of life and death which obviously leads to a compromise of principles.
With the modern world we live in, money holds sway over people like never before and the need for it has never been greater.....and is set to intensify further with all the competition for everything from rising prices, land, jobs, education and on and on and on through the explosion in population everywhere.
It never ceases to amaze me what scams the average local can dream up in order to pilfer that little bit more so they can pay their monthly payment for this, that or the other......everyone is at it, and the reason it will be so hard to change is because most normal people here see nothing wrong in doing it and certainly harbour no shame over doing it either, it's "normal".
One of the biggest astract differences I have noticed between Asia and western countries is that in the west people, no matter who you are, are allowed to dream and try to follow it (with many success stories all the time)......In most Asian countries the average person is not allowed to dream and certainly every obsticle is placed in their way to deny them it and keep them down and in their place should they dare to try to change things for themselves. Very few 'rags-to-riches' stories here (recently, as in last 20-25 years) and if you hear of one then they have almost gained divine, mythical or spiritual standing. They do it to foreigners too because the system is set up for you to fail and fall flat on your face and even if you have money then they might allow you to do something but will suck it all out of you through criminal ways such as protection money, buying favour etc. Guess those at the top just don't want none of it and simply see self-interest as the only goal despite showing fake piety for the consumption of the normal people that gaze on in spectator mode thinking how utterly fantastic it is (TV is the same).
Long way to go imo and won't be solved anytime soon despite the good intentions of those in power. It's a generational change thing as you have to change the attitude or values of people and that takes a lot of time......got to start somewhere though, I guess.
Large scale corruption, nepotism and all are merely symptoms of a unhealthy, unfair and unequal society......they [the Thais] collectively just have to realise it and give a damn about it.
Those at the top can say this as they, their close family and probably their gardener are already loaded (more than likely) through less than straight ways. There is obviously corruption in all countries but with a country like this it is so ingrained into the fiber of the most minute corners of absolutely everywhere...it's going to be pretty much impossible to do much about in the short and medium term. Starting at the top maybe their only option as starting at the bottom would be futile.
The other problem is that you have low level mafia groups and families that control the distribution of everything from fuel delivery to match sticks, even those water distribution machines on the street have unofficial regulations from the gang that controls that service and area (such as you can't have more than three of them without their permission and guess that means their 'cut'). The guys that sell the 20 baht flowers at the traffic lights have a shirt on like a motorbike taxi driver and they have to pay someone a cut who "owns" or is the boss of that junction everyday.
I think if they can stop/reduce the corruption by government officials and in government spending projects like road repairs etc. then it would be a start and make a decent difference. This train line that has been approved must have every 'tin-pot-hat' governor and his cronies rubbing their hands together in glee, that the train route goes through, at the prospect of such an opportunity to trough and feast off such an easy 'low hanging fruit' target. This is the kind of stuff that might be possible to change.
As for the middle classes and others, I fear there are simply too many temptations that modern life offers, requires or dangles in front of them for them to take the moral high ground and say "No." When the corruption starts in school (sometimes even kindergarden) with kids and all the things they now 'must have' so much earlier in life, which without, they believe they are judged as poor or inferior (14 year olds without a smart phone for example) then it's going to be very hard to free people of their addictions to the material world, which demands people to have so much more money than they can offer up. This thirst is currently fed (as it's the most easy way) through debt, greed, theft and the sale of land and all four are unsustainable really....could be proplems brewing in the future, not the imediate future but in about the 15-20 years or so time as the feeding frenzy will have to end sometime.
Until the rule of law is more convincingly applied in general and people see justice being done (in a blind fashion), and see social justice in action generally with the threat of sanctions on you for misdeeds (that you can't buy your way out of), then little will change imo. If it did change then there can (and slowly there would) be more considerate and responsible people in a society where virtue is rewarded at all levels and not mocked, then corruption will decline. Until this happens then the present indifferent 'dog eat dog' ways of doing things will continue to highly influence the attitude of the majority.
It's interesting to see the Chinese are attempting to do this with their crackdown on corruption as they see that the 'writing is on the wall' for them too. What they are doing is going after the big guys too......perhaps Thailand could learn a little from this, as that's what's needed, because the corruption monster is a mighty one to tame even a bit due to it being so firmly entrenched in Asian societies.......probably all stems from the lack of any social security provisions over a long time and it all being literally a matter of life and death which obviously leads to a compromise of principles.
With the modern world we live in, money holds sway over people like never before and the need for it has never been greater.....and is set to intensify further with all the competition for everything from rising prices, land, jobs, education and on and on and on through the explosion in population everywhere.
It never ceases to amaze me what scams the average local can dream up in order to pilfer that little bit more so they can pay their monthly payment for this, that or the other......everyone is at it, and the reason it will be so hard to change is because most normal people here see nothing wrong in doing it and certainly harbour no shame over doing it either, it's "normal".
One of the biggest astract differences I have noticed between Asia and western countries is that in the west people, no matter who you are, are allowed to dream and try to follow it (with many success stories all the time)......In most Asian countries the average person is not allowed to dream and certainly every obsticle is placed in their way to deny them it and keep them down and in their place should they dare to try to change things for themselves. Very few 'rags-to-riches' stories here (recently, as in last 20-25 years) and if you hear of one then they have almost gained divine, mythical or spiritual standing. They do it to foreigners too because the system is set up for you to fail and fall flat on your face and even if you have money then they might allow you to do something but will suck it all out of you through criminal ways such as protection money, buying favour etc. Guess those at the top just don't want none of it and simply see self-interest as the only goal despite showing fake piety for the consumption of the normal people that gaze on in spectator mode thinking how utterly fantastic it is (TV is the same).
Long way to go imo and won't be solved anytime soon despite the good intentions of those in power. It's a generational change thing as you have to change the attitude or values of people and that takes a lot of time......got to start somewhere though, I guess.
Large scale corruption, nepotism and all are merely symptoms of a unhealthy, unfair and unequal society......they [the Thais] collectively just have to realise it and give a damn about it.
Resolve dissolves in alcohol
Re: 'No room for corruption'
All they have to do is get rid of the top heavy bureaucracy, reduce the number of Generals in the military down to about 1/4'th of what they now have (same or more than the U.S. has) and take the savings and up the pay to the bottom end. Pay the people on the bottom end so they don't have to resort to bribes to live reasonably. 5,000 baht for beginning policeman. What a joke that is.
Re: 'No room for corruption'
@ Spitfire. Good post. 