Development Quality Check List

[Burger]

Re: Single storey bungalows and villas
If you're not qualified to check the below, hire a professional, very cheap. There's no need to take any risks.

Ask to see architects drawings, detailing structural items.
Ask to see the local authority building permit.
Ask to see the individual land title plot for your house, ie: has the main Chanote been ‘cut’ yet, it takes two months so should be done before show house is even finished.
Actually read the conditions in the contract (I know I'm pushing you to the limit here ) Get a solicitor to check it over, ask for changes if your not happy with certain conditions.
Check the footing’s go down at least 1.5m through established earth (ie: not newly built up earth), with at least a 1.2m square concrete padstone under the footing.
How long has the infill earth been left before they started building ?
Check they’re using 12mm dia reinforcing steelwork in the underground beam system and above ground columns, and not a smaller size (some only use 9mm or 10mm).
Check the underground beam layout from the architects drawings to make sure that all walls are built off these beams and not off in-filled concrete.
Check they are using '3-phase electrics' (not western 3-phase before anyone picks me up on that) with their own dedicated transformer, tapping into the higher located 11kv supply, rather than the lower single phase cables the whole area shares, which goes down often or is insufficient in certain areas.
Check they are installing an underground concrete drainage system going out of the project to the local drains or stream/river.
Check they are using concrete lintels above doors and windows and not just building bricks off the wood frames.
Check they are using grade ‘A’ cement.
Check they are using fine sand (more expensive) for the rendered walls, no plastering here. Run your hand over my breasts, err I mean walls to see how lumpy/rough their rendering is.
Check they are using quality pool equipment, or the like, and not cheap Asian equipment.
Check they are using steel traps, flexible hoses, valves and fittings in the bathrooms, rather than plastic ones where the joints blow after about a year.
Check they are putting electric cables in conduits.
Check they are using the latest regulation 3-pin sockets and that they are grounding them to earth, ask to see the earth rods in the ground outside.
Look at the plasterboard ceilings and see if you can see the joints, you shouldn’t be able too if they are quality tradesmen and ‘skim’ properly.
Check the tiling to see if the tiles are even or if any corners are jutting out, just run your hand across them.
Look at the swimming pool water line against the tiles to see how good/straight their tiling is.
Do they use compacting machines to ‘pack’ the earth down ? If not forget it.
Check they put concrete access roads in.
If you want to know if they can build walls straight look at the cut tiles along a run of wall.
Never buy off a Spurs fan or someone whose always down the pub. Doh!

There's probably loads more, why don't the proffessionals in the business, like Jaime etc, add to the list.

Burger

[Burger]

Pete wrote:

I don't know if all developers do this but you should push them to.

A computer generated spreadsheet with columns of TASK NAME, DURATION, START, FINISH, followed by the months/weeks up to the planned completion of the home.

Vertical row inclusive of STRUCTURE WORK with 15 sub categories. WET TRADE WORK with 8 sub categories and FINISHING WORK with 16 sub categories.

From this they draw a line graph which should look like a 45 degree angled line from top left to bottom right, bottom right being the projected hand over date.

It's easy then for you, or your designated agent, to simply blacken in with a pencil left (if early) or right (if late) on the original graph. Very good tool especially if you are not here that can be faxed or scanned and emailed to you to keep you right on top of progress. Tells you nothing about the work quality, but is good to understand progress. Pete
_________________
GO TOON!

August: A respectable 7th position

[Burger]

Redzonerocker wrote:

these charts & graphs may well look good on the computer screen & in the office. out on site it's a whole new ball game.
recovering delays to maintain targets, which often are unrealistic,usually end up with corners being cut & quantity replacing quality.
that is where the problems begin & why so many construction projects either fail to meet the required standards or go over budget.
thats only my opinion having worked for 30 years in the construction industry.

ps burger, your checklist is excellent but maybe for people with no construction knowledge, a bit to complex.

pps pete, nice idea, but progress charts & graphs won't stop your roof leaking or compensate you for shoddy workmanship.

[Burger]

GLCQuantum wrote:

To be completely honest I don't know any housing projects offering plaster wall finish. Only a few seperate houses that have been done.

[Burger]

HuaHinSimon wrote:

Burger,
great list. I'll wager that only a small minority of developers product could pass that quality test and the property agents would never use it to qualify homes because they would have little product to sell. Result:
the thread "where can you find the truth about property developments in HH. answer: you gotta be lucky, I know a case where a dissatisfied owner in a project actually recommended it to a prospective buyer because he got a kick back and wanted to see the project built out.

HHS

[Burger]

MikeD Wrote:

Burger, really good post. all i can add is
check that they square the ground correctly, something not done here often. if its wrong the roof will not sit square.
make sure that after welding the roof joists they paint over the welds to stop any rust.
flashing used on the roof must be 1 meter wide.
check on the plans that the roof is vented.
if you have panels on the roof ( NOT TILES) check that they are not going to fix them by drilling through the panels. a clip is available here price 2.5 baht for internal fixing.
last and most important. never buy from a west ham fan.
mike

[Burger]

MikeD Wrote:

no not a roofer
at present we are renting a house from my wife's sister. its 3 years old and has been built the thai way, all for show.
its single brick, no roof vents, no earth in the wiring and the roof panels have been drilled and bolted. its hot as hell and the roof has leaked from day 1. sometimes if very lucky we have water from the taps.
the plus side is its not my house and not my problem. its made me realise though that having a house built here you need to be in control or employ someone to do that. thais can build properly and to a very high standard.
mike

[lomuamart]

My comments re the first thread apply here. Just give us a bit of time and we'll return to general consensus discussion later - hopefully today.

[Lev]

The previous thread on this subject has been locked as it turned into a fight. It is not the job of moderators to compile lists in this section especially if they are not involved in the real estate business - which is pretty much all of them as far as I'm aware.

This is quite constructive though so it can stay open for constructive discussion.

Thanks.

[Burger]

Cheers Lomu,

I owe you a few beers next time I see you to cover your phone bill to HK to wake up that lazy boss of yours.

I didn't ask for the mods to develop the list, only compile all the posters own items then maybe put it somewhere in the property section as one master list, rather than it being lost in a thread.

Maybe one of the 'fine' mods on here will compile a list from everyone's posts.

It does seem to be a hot topic with members at the moment, re: bad building works.

Burger

[redzonerocker]

was gonna reply on the other thread until it started straying down the wrong route!!
my point was, that if you pay a developer to build you a house, surely it is down to him/them to supervise & make sure that it is built to the standards & quality he/they advertise?
an 'expert' at 3000 baht per visit could well work out expensive if he has to go through the checklist at each stage of the construction process.
if he shows up to do a survey at the end of the building completion,
unless he has x-ray specs or turns up with a jackhammer & a jcb he isn't gonna know whats buried beneath the earth, concrete or render.?.

[PeteC]

....my point was, that if you pay a developer to build you a house, surely it is down to him/them to supervise & make sure that it is built to the standards & quality he/they advertise?
an 'expert' at 3000 baht per visit could well work out expensive if he has to go through the checklist at each stage of the construction process.

I think that's one of the key points here in 3rd world Asia, RZR. You can't trust them all. Be nature many will cheat, regardless of the business, not just property sales. If they're of a mind to do it, and you're not watching, they will in many cases.

For the absentee buyer I think an agent, or at least a trusted friend/family, is mandatory to do site visits weekly at minimum.

I think it boils down to the impression the buyer has of the developer. You can feel these things when you meet people, most of the time. A lot has to do with talking to other clients as well and getting the info on their experiences. Pete

[redzonerocker]

i agree pete,
just want to add that i wasn't just indicating building practices in thai, although the relevance is obviously there.
the uk is no different & nor for that fact most other places i have worked abroad except maybe germany.
i think the trusted friend/family member would be the ideal solution, but then again, if they have no knowledge of the construction industry that could be a pointless exercise.
the process of buying a new home is about as big a step as anyone is ever likely to take.
the experiences of people who have bought in thai, whether good or bad are a helpful guide to future buyers.
help to avoid the potential pitfalls & bad practices should always be openly discussed, whatever side of the fence you stand on.

[Burger]

redzonerocker wrote:

my point was, that if you pay a developer to build you a house, surely it is down to him/them to supervise & make sure that it is built to the standards & quality he/they advertise?
an 'expert' at 3000 baht per visit could well work out expensive if he has to go through the checklist at each stage of the construction process.
if he shows up to do a survey at the end of the building completion,
unless he has x-ray specs or turns up with a jackhammer & a jcb he isn't gonna know whats buried beneath the earth, concrete or render.

The 3,000 Baht was a one off visit to check the quality of a developments houses before you payed a deposit.

Any proper development will have other houses on the go at vairious stages so all element can be viewed.

If there's just one show house and their waiting for sales to carry on then I'd steer clear.

You want to know that the other houses are the same quality as the show house.

Burger

[PeteC]

We can still take this thread strand a bit forward. I don't think you have to be a degreed engineer or architect to follow Burgers check list, or one similar. Sure, you won't be able to do chemical analysis of cement mixtures or perhaps determine how "fine", fine sand is. Anyone with some experience in building or even owning a house though should be able to spot the other items and simply report if they are there or not, done or not. Maybe I'm simplifying things too much. It's worked OK for me over here, directly and through proxy a few weeks out of the process. Pete