Trouble with service charges

[badbrat]

I am a resident at Dusita Hua Hin a development located on soi 112. The developer has a second project on the same site called Dusita lakeside.

In Jan 08 we all received a letter from the owner of the project Khun Per to say that an increase in service charges was to take place from 6 baht per sq m of land occupied to 10 baht per month. This represented a 66% increase. The letter went onto say that any resident who did not pay this by the 31st January for the whole of 2008 would have their electricity disconnected. It was quickly pointed out to Khun Per that the electricity was supplied by the electric company and he could not cut people off for non payment of an unrelated charge. He then changed his stance and said that he would cut off peoples water by removing their water meter. Water on this estate is supplied from an underground well by Khun per so I guess he could conceivably do this.

I bought my house in June 2007 on this estate "second hand" and the previous owner handed me a receipt for service charges that were paid up to April 2008. I therefore contacted our owner Khun Per with a calculation representing the 2008 service charge being split, the difference being paid for the period Jan to April 2008 and the new full rate from April to December 2008. He declined this and said everyone had to pay the new rate from Jan 1st 2008 even if they were prepaid. In contrast those who had fallen behind and were perhaps owing a few months were to have that amount written off and everyone started with a "clean sheet" from Jan 1st 2008.

In effect therefore those who were dilatory and behind were receiving a period "free" whilst those who were ahead were being asked to double pay. Hardly fair but then this is Thailand !

I had to go out of Thailand for ten days early Feb 2008 and while I was away my wife sent me a text saying our water had been disconnected. I believe this act was done in the knowledge I would be out of the country and unable to do anything about it.

Other residents also on this estate have had their water cut off and are now having trucks delivered to supply water as many of us strongly disagree with the project owners logic and morals (or lack of them).

I have now paid for the whole of 2008 - only to get my water back on which it is but I am still owed the amount I have "double paid" for the period Jan to April 2008 and whilst its not a lot of money its the principle that I find abhorrent. Khun Per refuses point blank to pay or even to talk to me about it.

The owner of this development Khun Per is not an easy man to deal with, he frequently makes promises then changes his mind but he aslo has a large area of land which he hopes to turn into hefty profit by selling phase two. Prospective buyers coming to this estate who take the time to talk to residents already living here will hear stories of the communal pool been out of action for three months, the site shop smelling like a pig sty,lack of general repairs on site like keeping street lamps lit or public grassed areas cut or dirty rubbish (like diapers and empty cans and plastic bags by the hundred) from blowing around in the breeze.

So you may ask what are we paying for - twice ? Yeah well so are we !

Come and join us on soi 112.

[splitlid]

a friend of mine had similar problems in Bangkok on their estate but with the roads and communal recreation areas not being in place. the developer refused to do any works.

the community got together and made banners advertising their homes for sale, but on each banner they stated why they were selling. ie. developer not supplying the promised goods.
they had no intention of selling BUT anyone viewing the development to purchase a house from the developer were quickly put off by all the for sale banners!!!!

the developer rapidly changed his game play!

could be worth a try

[Wanderlust]

Sorry to hear about this, and it sounds like you are expecting more of the same at a later point unfortunately. I have a few questions for you though; how many properties are on your development? And how many of those refused/are still refusing to pay the extra charge? Does the original contract say anything about service charges and water supply? Do you pay a separate water charge?
My thoughts are that the two should not be connected and if you wished to pursue it legally you could, or at least threaten to. You could also throw in the fact that the estate is not being maintained as promised too. On the other side of this, you could band together with the other residents and make an offer to take over the maintenance contract yourselves (having already found a Thai company willing to do it) - the two things in combination (legal action and offer about maintenance) might persuade him either to accept the offer or change his stance. A carrot and stick approach really. I know you weren't asking for advice but I hope it gives you and your fellow residents food for thought?

[Wanderlust]

splitlid's idea sounds good too!

[Jockey]

He then changed his stance and said that he would cut off peoples water by removing their water meter. Water on this estate is supplied from an underground well by Khun per so I guess he could conceivably do this.

My suspicion is this is illegal but would be very hard to contest. Where is the water well? Who's land is it on? As wanderlust asks, was there a contract to say he would supply water when you bought the house? Probably not!

I also suspect this "Khun Per" is a bully just like many of the other unscrupulous developers in Hua Hin who have handed over brown envelopes to officials and think they are now untouchable.

I like Splitlid's idea too!

[JimmyGreaves]

There just too many f***ing S**tty money grabbing developers out there. Buyers have to thoroughly check their contracts to make sure that after buying they are as independant as they can be regarding all essential services and not have hitler and his mates dictating to you. I'm dead against the developer controlling services charges that's why I would never buy on an estate with this type of overhead!

[Jockey]

There just too many f***ing S**tty money grabbing developers out there.

Tell me about it! The scourge of Hua Hin. These guys should have been kicked out of town a long time ago.

[icebear]

even at 6 Baht per sq.mt per month is already way over the top. Also leaving in a upmarket development, but for water for a 1450 sq.mt place I'll pay B 450 a month and elec with one air/con. running only at night, but irrigation pump/water system, night lighting, etc. it works out about B 4500 a month. I heard of another place with water charges close to yours located to the left of/and at the beginning of 112.

[huahinsimon]

There just too many f***ing S**tty money grabbing developers out there. Buyers have to thoroughly check their contracts to make sure that after buying they as independant as they can be regarding all essential services and not have hitler and his mates dictating to you. I'm dead against the developer controlling services charges that's why I would never buy on an estate with this type of overhead!

Great thoughts Jimmy, but thats not the reality. You can have an "iron clad" contract and if the developer doesnt want to honor it, your f**ked! I have a good contract with the Greek, whad he say? Sue me! It will take you years and millions of baht and in the end i wont pay.

TIT and the brown envelopes rule. Contract dont mean shite. thats why more and more renegad developer are coming here. They see nothing happens to those who have gone before them, so they say I'm on that bandwagon. I brown envelope a baht and make 20. or I BW 1 million and make 20. Hua Hin is certainly PARADISE CITY for crooked developers. You can tell who they are, they wear the caps and shirts that say, NO FEAR!

Only one thing will stop this. A "Ripped off homeowners association" that marches on the Tessaban with banners etc, like the political parties do, THAT FIRST call the tv stations, bkk post, nation etc. Get in the MEDIA. THE MEDIA LOVE STORIES LIKE THIS. What's needed is an Eliot Spitzer moment! We've been f**ked. Lets out the F**kers.

Only BAD PRESS for the Kings city will stop this.. You have to go where the brown envelopes dont reach. where some politico or general can make a name busting corruption in the King's retirement town. maybe Taksin himself. yea i'm a dreamer.

But these guy feel invincible! WHY? because they have been for years.
If abused home owners would take the time and effort to get together and coordinate an offensive, good things will happen. strength in numbers, you know! the ripped off include most every country in Europe, some Americans, Australians. will the embassy help you? probably not just one person. Whats needed is an "offensive." that is offensive.

But who will coordinate such a thing? who will take the time to come to meetings? heck you only got 4, 5 6 maybe 10 million baht at risk. Kiss it Off! or?? Dont get mad, get even! It takes time, work, and some money, AND THATS WHAT THE BAD GUYS COUNT ON. No one has done it so far and these punter are so stupid they never will. Up to us.

end of rant. But open to get together.

HHS

[icebear]

one has to look also at buyers. Have they been informed about the charges for elec/water, etc. beforehand? Is it written in their contracts? It is easy to complain about something, but to make the own homework before you sign. Sorry, I am not out to feel sorry for the developers or buyers, but heard to many horror stories in my 18 years in Thailand. Unfortunately, sometimes the stories are not true and are made up because of people unable to forsee the truth or unable to read contracts. How many of us do not even have a Thai translation of a contract!

[huahinsimon]

one has to look also at buyers. Have they been informed about the charges for elec/water, etc. beforehand? Is it written in their contracts? It is easy to complain about something, but to make the own homework before you sign. Sorry, I am not out to feel sorry for the developers or buyers, but heard to many horror stories in my 18 years in Thailand. Unfortunately, sometimes the stories are not true and are made up because of people unable to forsee the truth or unable to read contracts. How many of us do not even have a Thai translation of a contract!

ice bear: let me get this right. you been 18 years in Thailand? And you are a NOVICE POSTER!! SOMETHING DONT SMELL RIGHT HERE. Did you have a Thai translation of the contract that YOU could read yourself before you bought anything 18 YEARS AGO? or did you depend on a partners or others translation? OR did you not buy anthing all?

Rest assurred we will all be waiting for your answer. Actually I think you are a shill for a developer or one yourself!!
Why would the stories not be true. Let's say I contracted for a house and it was everything I wanted OR 90% of what I wanted. Why would I complain? I got a house that would cost me 4x as much in Oz. Yes. you are exactly right: PEOPLE UNABLE TO SEE THE TRUTH. or unable to read contracts. The TRUTH being 1) MOST BUYERS DO NOT THINK THEIR CONTRACTOR IS OUT TO CHEAT THEM and therefore dont take precautions, 2) contracts dont mean shite if the legal system wont enforce them in a reasonable amount of time. Is 2 or 3 years reasonable while your home stands empty? add appeals etc and the average punter cant afford the legal costs. BUT THE DEVELOPERS CAN.

"one has to look at the buyers." you wrote icebear. OK look at the buyers. Does badbrat deserve what he gets.

hope to hear from you, icebear but dont think i will

HHS

[JimmyGreaves]

Surely HuaHInSimon if as I say you get as independant as possible with essential services such as Electric/Water i.e paying your bill to the National suppiers then at least that part of the equation is out of the way. If the house build is bad then that's another story and requires different tactics in the beginning.

Seems like everyone is trusting developers for ongoing support which is bloody stupid. They only get away with this shit because you as buyers let them in the first place by agreeing to unknown future charges!

[huahinsimon]

Surely HuaHInSimon if as I say you get as independant as possible with essential services such as Electric/Water i.e paying your bill to the National suppiers then at least that part of the equation is out of the way. If the house build is bad then that's another story and requires different tactics in the beginning.

Seems like everyone is trusting developers for ongoing support which is bloody stupid. They only get away with this shit because you as buyers let them in the first place by agreeing to unknown future charges!

Jimmy what world do you live in? the world of CONTRACTS? and where does that make shite? not here inLOS.

When you buy a meal in LOS, do you trust that the meal is safe to eat. :''is that bloody stupid?" only if you die.

"If the house build is bad then that....requires different tactics in the beginning. AND WHAT TACTICS DO YOU SUGGEST? this ota be good. Perhaps you are a lawyer who can make this copasetic here in LOS

HHS

[redzonerocker]

i have never heard of a contract yet that is favourable to the buyer
they are legally worded for the benefit & protection of the company & seller, never the buyer.

the subject badbrat points out would be nothing new or surprising in any particular country.
as annoying as it is, this guy does pretty much seem to have control. if you make a stand he may turn your water off again .
next time, he may well charge to connect it again
so until (or if ?) there is the possibility an alternative supplier, you are basically at his mercy
if he is as hard to deal with as you say, it seems a no win situation

[JimmyGreaves]

Surely HuaHInSimon if as I say you get as independant as possible with essential services such as Electric/Water i.e paying your bill to the National suppiers then at least that part of the equation is out of the way. If the house build is bad then that's another story and requires different tactics in the beginning.

Seems like everyone is trusting developers for ongoing support which is bloody stupid. They only get away with this shit because you as buyers let them in the first place by agreeing to unknown future charges!

Jimmy what world do you live in? the world of CONTRACTS? and where does that make shite? not here inLOS.

When you buy a meal in LOS, do you trust that the meal is safe to eat. :''is that bloody stupid?" only if you die.

"If the house build is bad then that....requires different tactics in the beginning. AND WHAT TACTICS DO YOU SUGGEST? this ota be good. Perhaps you are a lawyer who can make this copasetic here in LOS

HHS

Listen I'm talking about essential services and getting into a situation where a developer can cut these off because you are going through them to supply you, Buyers sign an agreement to pay a monthly fee that has unknown future charges, you are then bolloxed as the OP tells us. Not exactly the same as being supplied direct from the electricity company is it? My reference to house building is not part of this discussion and maybe I should not have mentioned it as it allowed you to go off on a tangent! My stance is go independant if you even bothered to read what I wrote.