under thai law a child, ie: under the legal age, born from a foreigner with a thai spouse, can own land in his own name, registered on the chanote
they can buy it via their thai parent’s money (the sign off declaration at land office) or be given it as a gift from the parents
after that your child can give you a ‘usufruct’ for the land, which gives you full rights to use the land, the same rights as a lease, but it is for your lifetime it can not be revoked until you pass
even if your child sells the land when he’s old enough, the usufruct rights continue with the new owner until you pass
the usufruct is registered at the land office, and your own name goes on the chanote as the usufruct holder.
you do not pay rent under this right, therefore no taxes apply. your child can’t give you a lease as it involves you paying rent for use of the land
you can sell on your usufruct at any time. a lot of people are using them now and the hua hin land office will only issue these to foreigners whose spouses own the land, they wont allow normal leases anymore if your spouse has your surname
http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Tha ... ufruct.php
is this link ok mods ? the company has nothing to with me
The applicable sections of the law:
Section 1417: An immovable property may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use & enjoyment of the property. He has the right of management of the property.
Section 1418: A usufruct may be created either for a period of time or for the life of the usufructary. If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usfructuary
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For those of you with luek-kruengs .
For those of you with luek-kruengs .
Last edited by Super Joe on Thu May 15, 2008 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've tried to read it, but the first link won't work at all, and the second seems to contain broken links.
What I'm trying to find out is what happens if, when the child has to choose between English and Thai nationality at age 21, he or she chooses English?
What I'm trying to find out is what happens if, when the child has to choose between English and Thai nationality at age 21, he or she chooses English?
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lindosfan1
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links
Big boy links worked ok for me try rebooting may help
Woke up this morning breathing that's a good start to the day.
the first link opens ok for me big boy ?
try copy/paste in the address upto ".com", then they have a menu on the left with usufruct under property heading
the second didn't sorry, just deleted it, here's a cop/paste of their text:
Usufruct
In Thai language it is called “Sidhi-kep-kin” and it provides temporary ownership rights. This right is for the use and enjoyment of the profits and advantages of something belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way. The person who enters into a contractual agreement with the owner for this right is called the “usufructuary.” A usufruct may be created either for a period of time (not exceeding 30 years) or for the life of the usufructuary. The usufructuary is responsible for the expenses for the management of the property, paying taxes and duties, and be responsible for interests payable on debts charged to it. If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner. He must pay the insurance premiums for the duration of his usufruct. You are registered on the title deed. The land can never be sold or transferred by the owner of the land until the servitude is terminated. A usufruct interest expires upon the death of the holder of the usufruct and therefore cannot be inherited.
An interesting feature of usufruct is that the usufructuary can enter into a 30-year lease with a third party. So if the usufructuary signed a 30-year lease contract before his death, the lessee (tenant) will maintain the rights of the lease until its expiration. Supreme Court ruling 2297/1998 states that the lessor (landlord) does not have to be the owner of the property. Therefore the usufructuary can rent out the land. Although in the event of death of the usufructuary with the lease term, only the usufruct will be terminated but not also the lease.
Moreover, the usufructuary could transfer the right of using the land to his child. However, it remains to be seen if the Land Department officials would allow a transfer of the rights to the land. There is no annual tax levied on the property compared with 12.5 percent of the assessed or market rate rental value in the case of a registered lease.
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try copy/paste in the address upto ".com", then they have a menu on the left with usufruct under property heading
the second didn't sorry, just deleted it, here's a cop/paste of their text:
Usufruct
In Thai language it is called “Sidhi-kep-kin” and it provides temporary ownership rights. This right is for the use and enjoyment of the profits and advantages of something belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way. The person who enters into a contractual agreement with the owner for this right is called the “usufructuary.” A usufruct may be created either for a period of time (not exceeding 30 years) or for the life of the usufructuary. The usufructuary is responsible for the expenses for the management of the property, paying taxes and duties, and be responsible for interests payable on debts charged to it. If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner. He must pay the insurance premiums for the duration of his usufruct. You are registered on the title deed. The land can never be sold or transferred by the owner of the land until the servitude is terminated. A usufruct interest expires upon the death of the holder of the usufruct and therefore cannot be inherited.
An interesting feature of usufruct is that the usufructuary can enter into a 30-year lease with a third party. So if the usufructuary signed a 30-year lease contract before his death, the lessee (tenant) will maintain the rights of the lease until its expiration. Supreme Court ruling 2297/1998 states that the lessor (landlord) does not have to be the owner of the property. Therefore the usufructuary can rent out the land. Although in the event of death of the usufructuary with the lease term, only the usufruct will be terminated but not also the lease.
Moreover, the usufructuary could transfer the right of using the land to his child. However, it remains to be seen if the Land Department officials would allow a transfer of the rights to the land. There is no annual tax levied on the property compared with 12.5 percent of the assessed or market rate rental value in the case of a registered lease.
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another interesting thing is that a foreign usufruct holder can lease out his land access rights, only up to 30 years, to a.n.other
a foreigner can not normally issue leases for obvious reasons
so you keep regular leases in place so that if you passed, the usufruct does not end on your 'lifetime' but the 30 year lease rights pass onto who you decided to lease it to
Supreme Court ruling 2297/1998: "the lessor does not have to be the owner of the property".
Lawyer website quote: "So the usufructuary can grant a thirty year lease to a third party. By this way, you could pass on your rights to your children or other relatives even after death if the lease was done before your demise".
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a foreigner can not normally issue leases for obvious reasons
so you keep regular leases in place so that if you passed, the usufruct does not end on your 'lifetime' but the 30 year lease rights pass onto who you decided to lease it to
Supreme Court ruling 2297/1998: "the lessor does not have to be the owner of the property".
Lawyer website quote: "So the usufructuary can grant a thirty year lease to a third party. By this way, you could pass on your rights to your children or other relatives even after death if the lease was done before your demise".
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Last edited by Super Joe on Thu May 15, 2008 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Interesting ... and definitely worth further investigation though I guess a good lawyer is also required as I can see blank looks from the land office since they've always told us that a child's name cannot go on the chanote until he/she is 18 or a trust has been setup by a lawyer.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
buksida, the land office do all sorts that aren't a the rules, never giving you more rights, but the other way
last november they stopped giving farangs leases from their spouse if she has your surname (for us anyway), there was no law change about that, and the other land offices still permit them
they will now only give usufruct agreements between spouses, for which you pay 10k admin fee
it does say they have the right to investigate that no laws have been broken, they could decide you've done it purely to avoid the land code in respect foreigners holding land
but they're also entitled to do the same check for your wife, for the same reasons, but do not
if refused you can still do a usufruct through your wife and keep regular leases for your child, for when you go
in case of divorce you still have lifetime right, in the case of death you know your child is secure for at least 30 years
ps: all this info is from lawyers publications, not my opinion or what i heard etc
doesn't mean its neccessarily correct though
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last november they stopped giving farangs leases from their spouse if she has your surname (for us anyway), there was no law change about that, and the other land offices still permit them
they will now only give usufruct agreements between spouses, for which you pay 10k admin fee
it does say they have the right to investigate that no laws have been broken, they could decide you've done it purely to avoid the land code in respect foreigners holding land
but they're also entitled to do the same check for your wife, for the same reasons, but do not
if refused you can still do a usufruct through your wife and keep regular leases for your child, for when you go
in case of divorce you still have lifetime right, in the case of death you know your child is secure for at least 30 years
ps: all this info is from lawyers publications, not my opinion or what i heard etc
doesn't mean its neccessarily correct though
.
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I’ll try to find out the details, but I do seem to remember a friend telling me that he managed to put some property in the North of Thailand into his sons name after having been deserted by the mother. When I get the chance I will ask him about the implications because I know he was trying to achieve this some years ago.
I think its another "Hua Hin thing", we have found the land office in Bangsaphan so much easier to deal with, no signing clauses to exclude the farang, no checking on surnames of Thai women, no asking where the funds come from, no extortionate transfer fees or "extras".
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Big Boy wrote:
if they decide to gain another nationality they have to officially denounce their thai nationality, i bet at that point part of the process is disposing of any land they hold
as they can hold a british passport under thai nationality, is their a reason to officially take british nationality, unless they were going in the army and the like ? would they have to do thai military service if they keep thai nationality, obviously that would be a good reason!!
Extract from the Thai Nationality act:
Section 14. A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his father is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years
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they don't have to choose at 21 though do they, that's the age at which they can if they want tooWhat I'm trying to find out is what happens if, when the child has to choose between English and Thai nationality at age 21, he or she chooses English?
if they decide to gain another nationality they have to officially denounce their thai nationality, i bet at that point part of the process is disposing of any land they hold
as they can hold a british passport under thai nationality, is their a reason to officially take british nationality, unless they were going in the army and the like ? would they have to do thai military service if they keep thai nationality, obviously that would be a good reason!!
Extract from the Thai Nationality act:
Section 14. A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his father is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years
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nevets,
i'm assuming you are 'legally' married, but she's kept her maiden name
they ask if you are married, the customer answers honestly and says yes
they say sorry no lease, only usufruct
my wife has an 'understanding' with a senior'ish person there, and we ask if anything can be done, it usually can with a donation to 'charity'
we were told, yes IF the wife had not taken his surname, everyone so far had taken the surname so never tried it
my concern would be that if the criteria is marriage whether the land office at a later date decide the lease is not legal as their rules say blah blah blah
look into usufructs, speak to solicitor, they are much better for us imho
a 30+30+30 year lease is valid for 30 years only, not 90 years, only 30 years is registered at the land office on the land title
the option to extend is a contract between you and the landowner only, it ends upon their death or sale to a new owner who is not legally bound by it unless they sign it
after 30 years even if your landowner has not died, the day before you try to enforce your option to extend he can transfer the land to his brother who can ask you to leave or pay for another 30 years
Supreme Court Judgment 6763/ 1998; 'In case the lessor promises in the lease agreement to extent or renew the lease term, but has sold the leased land before the lessee was entitled to accept, the 'contractual rights' are not binding upon the new owner and only lease rights that are 'real rights' will transfer to the new owner'
'real rights' means what's registered at land office, not what's in a contract
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i'm assuming you are 'legally' married, but she's kept her maiden name
they ask if you are married, the customer answers honestly and says yes
they say sorry no lease, only usufruct
my wife has an 'understanding' with a senior'ish person there, and we ask if anything can be done, it usually can with a donation to 'charity'
we were told, yes IF the wife had not taken his surname, everyone so far had taken the surname so never tried it
my concern would be that if the criteria is marriage whether the land office at a later date decide the lease is not legal as their rules say blah blah blah
look into usufructs, speak to solicitor, they are much better for us imho
a 30+30+30 year lease is valid for 30 years only, not 90 years, only 30 years is registered at the land office on the land title
the option to extend is a contract between you and the landowner only, it ends upon their death or sale to a new owner who is not legally bound by it unless they sign it
after 30 years even if your landowner has not died, the day before you try to enforce your option to extend he can transfer the land to his brother who can ask you to leave or pay for another 30 years
Supreme Court Judgment 6763/ 1998; 'In case the lessor promises in the lease agreement to extent or renew the lease term, but has sold the leased land before the lessee was entitled to accept, the 'contractual rights' are not binding upon the new owner and only lease rights that are 'real rights' will transfer to the new owner'
'real rights' means what's registered at land office, not what's in a contract
.