Microsoft Vista

[Guess]

As Buksida says on another thread, this subject deserves a thread of its own. Many of us have already fallen in to the pitfalls and clambered out so my intention is to keep this thread on topic with everybody's experiences.

I have been putting Vista Ultimate through the paces for six weeks now and have accepted it as the platform for everyday use at last. I have learnt a few things and made some stupid mistakes.

The machine I am using for Vista is a Celeron 2.13 GHZ with 1280 MB memory. That is about the lowest spec which is usable despite anything OEMs or MS tell you.

The positive side.

In contrary to comment on another thread I have found it is not for geeks but more user friendly than anything from MS so far.

E.g. You don't have to respond every time you want to do anything. If you alone use the PC just switch off User Account Control.

The whole GUI has as better look and feel to it than XP.

Drivers are more plentiful and up to date. I did not have to install additional drivers to get up and running although things improved when I did.

Once you have defined the boot partition you can mess around with the other partitions while online with Disk Manager but be careful.

Installing third party software is more reliable.


The negative side.

Vista needs about twice the resource of XP. I would recommend a 2GHZ Dual core or over 3GHZ single core processor and at least 2GB of memory.

Vista will install on 9GB of disk but that very soon creeps up to 15GB so allow at least 20GB and use a second partition for heavy apps like Office, Adobe Reader and Photoshop.

The default installed services are mostly not needed and you have to refer to a techie web site and disable most of them. E.g. It will start Tablet PC services on a desktop computer.

Many legacy applications will not work on Vista and some will work with unreliable results. Steer clear of registry cleaners unless they specifically state they are for Vista.

According to rumour, SP1, (recently released to the public) has stopped all cracks to enable unlicensed software. Most desktops bought in Thailand will not have licensed copies of Vista installed so be careful with automatic updates. Eventually you will load the Windows Genuine Advantage module. This will restrict functionality and may not allow you to use Vista at all.

Many say it is early days yet but that is not true. Vista (Windows 6) is half way through its life cycle already and MS have issued a release date already for Windows 7 in 2010.

[buksida]

You beat me to it, was about to start a vista thread myself!

Have had it for about 2 weeks now on the new laptop which is a 2GHz dual core AMD with 2GB RAM, 250GB hard disk and an nvidia 8400m graphics card.

The first thing I noticed was how much RAM it used on startup - almost a full gig. So the first thing I did was disable all the unnecessary services, this site has been invaluable:

http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/supertweaks.htm

Following their tweaks and disabling the services I ended up with a much leaner and more responsive Windows running on half the memory. You also need to turn off all the crap that laptop manufacturers pre-install as you'll probably never use it.

The eye-candy such as aero-glass windows and animated windows (common on Macs already for many years) are all optional and best turned off if you don't have a decent graphics card.

The side-bar is a great little tool I miss when back on XP now and I prefer Vista's file management and copying system which is a little more intuitive than XP.

Two other functions are the 'search indexing' which is great if you have a lot of data and want to find something quick and 'pre-fetch' which partially loads frequently accessed programs into memory making loading up and switching faster.

If you have decent hardware Vista can be a nice system, though if you're trying to install it on a 2 year old computer with 512 megs of RAM it'll be a pig. I remember waiting at least a year before moving to XP from 2K - it takes the time for the first service pack to come out before you can really be confident in a system, the hardware required will have also got a lot cheaper since its launch.

Many say it is early days yet but that is not true. Vista (Windows 6) is half way through its life cycle already and MS have issued a release date already for Windows 7 in 2010.

This is true but can you imagine the hardware requirements for W7 if people are already struggling with Vista? Expensive touch screen panels for one and about 8 gigs of RAM!

[Big Boy]

Guess wrote:

The positive side.

You are the first person that I've known to say anything positive about Vista. It was also reassuring to see Buksida changing his opinion at last.

I moved to Vista about 4 months ago when I purchased a new laptop. I was very nervous at first after all of the bad things I had heard. In reality, Guess is quite right when he says

In contrary to comment on another thread I have found it is not for geeks but more user friendly than anything from MS so far.

It is far easier to use than any of its predecessors - the sooner my work PC is brought into line, the better.

[margaretcarnes]

I can't do the Techie speak like you guys so bear with me! Have had Vista Home Premium now for 8 months, running on an Acer Aspire 1.66 GHz with 2 MB memory.
At the time I bought it most budget range laptops here in the UK were only available with Vista. I also did away with some of the surplus pre-installed stuff, and found an immediate improvement in performance.
I also found that replacing the pre-installed anti virus software with AVG made for much less intrusive updates.
As Buksida will testify, it ain't been without it's hiccups. Main one was when I downloaded a new all singing and dancing web/e mail package, and the system just ground to a halt. That went pronto. Then in March the whole system went down and left me floundering in background menu for a weekend. The geek at MSN told me it was due to a mega system update, and I have to say it has been fine since.
I still have to use XP at work, and by comparison XP is like swimming through custard. But - and it's a big But - I haven't used other systems.
BTW Buksi, you suggested using Firefox instead of MSN, but I'm hearing negative comments about it over here.

[buksida]

BTW Buksi, you suggested using Firefox instead of MSN, but I'm hearing negative comments about it over here.

Firefox is great, not sure where you're reading the negativity?!

[Guess]

Then in March the whole system went down and left me floundering in background menu for a weekend. The geek at MSN told me it was due to a mega system update, and I have to say it has been fine since.
I still have to use XP at work, and by comparison XP is like swimming through custard. But - and it's a big But - I haven't used other systems.
BTW Buksi, you suggested using Firefox instead of MSN, but I'm hearing negative comments about it over here.

The mega update may have been SP1. I have just got it from Windows Update after failing to install from a downloaded file. It took about four hours but the performance has improved and I would say it now is comparable to XP SP2 for the same machine.

Your machine at work maybe a lower spec or have other services running on it. It will certainly have all the network services that the home PC will (should) not have.

So in summary, with the same machine running XP SP2 and Vista SP1 I can not notice much difference in performance. The graphical demands of Vista are much ,more than XP. The spider solitaire game for Vista is slower than the old XP version running on Vista but I have bought a new 512MB graphics card to deal with that issue. I will test that and report back.

Firefox. I have had no problems with version 2 and now 3. The negative stuff you hear is probably put about by MS and its agents. If it was so bad why does MS IE continue to emulate it. Sour grapes I think. The predecessor of Firefox were the same as those responsible for the DOJ actions against Microsoft.

[SuperTonic]

In an enterprise environment, vista is a bastard. The problem is that actually it's not for geeks. This is bad. It hides too many things from the user which a geek would normally use to diagnose and fix problems, and it involves a good deal of faffing about to get things going once something's fubarred. That and resource use are my two bugbears with vista. That said, improved security is a big plus and certainly is something that makes me consider vista in the future at some point, or more likely the Server 2008 variant.

[huahindolly]

I just had a Thai language module installed in vista. It works fine in MS Office. When it comes to printing though (HP printer), the vowels above and below the consonants print with a circle in the middle. I've asked our tech support about this, and he hypothesizes that the Thai language converters aren't vista friendly. Need to check it out in the next few days.

HHD

[margaretcarnes]

Hi Guess - yes my XP at work is running on a mish mash of old PCs, and it doesn't help that we have a self appointed software manager who messes around with things! (No - can't do anything about his interference for various reasons.)
But the layout and navigation is different to my home Vista, and not so responsive. Must say I don't run any games at all on Vista. Just no interest at all, so can't comment on that. But the Firefox comments have come from folks who have tried it. To be fair, most of my mates (and my employer) are stuck with having to use Karoo, which has the monopoly on broadband provision in the Hull area, whereas my ISP is BT.
Karoo is part of Kingston Communications, once the only independant telephone company in England. Although Karoo say that they don't prevent other providers operating in the Hull area, for some strange reason none do, leaving some 300,000 people with no choice at all.

[Guess]

If you are not interested in Microsoft Vista then don't read this.

.....When it comes to printing though (HP printer), the vowels above and below the consonants print with a circle in the middle. I've asked our tech support about this, and he hypothesizes that the Thai language converters aren't vista friendly. Need to check it out in the next few days.
HHD

He hypothesizes wrong I think. The problem is with the HP drivers. Try Google for a more recent one. I am not 100% sure but I don't think any character conversion takes pace. The Thai Unicode set is used by most manufactures. That is an international standard. My theory is that if Vista provides the wrong data to a HP it should do it to all printers. I used to be a fan of HP but not any more. I use a Canon, a Canon and another Canon. I get drivers directly from Japan. No problem. All in English and Japanese. Anyway try downloading a driver and don't install all the other garbage that HP supply.

In an enterprise environment, vista is a bastard. The problem is that actually it's not for geeks. This is bad. It hides too many things from the user which a geek would normally use to diagnose and fix problems, and it involves a good deal of faffing about to get things going once something's fubarred.

Yes the enterprise has different and much more varied requirements. It may be a case of the teckies not being up to speed. I have found it easier to tweak when you have discovered the correct tools and where to look. Of course this is hidden from Joe Public. Many of the problems in XP were self inflicted by users not knowing what they were doing. Anyway I have tried many utilities so, far and easily the best by a mile is Vista Manger. It does just about everything that the others do in one package. There is a cost but not great. I got my copy on a torrent. See summary below.
Fubarred??? Same as buggered or F***ed??

For Margaret. Nothing you can do at work. The background network process can be quite greedy when they are in use. If the look and feel are different (from previous XP environments) it will be because someone has had a go at customising it. Also he may not have moved up, to SP3 yet which would offer some performance advantages. The System Information utility will tell you what you are running. I remember the Hull system starting up and offering free local calls. They built the complete infrastructure with future technology in mind so have adapted well up to now. I would guess that the others do not have any infrastructure in place at all. Hence, a Karoo monopoly.

You need to try Firefox for yourself. It does not use much disk and only uses memory when you are using it. You can easily delete it and switch back to IE. Many people just don't like change.

My summary of Vista tools so far:

Auslogics. Many utilities. They do what is written on the tin and are easy to use.

TeakVista. Heavy, and the trial version has very little on it. Not enough to make a decision really

TweakVI. More feature on this but still a few things missing.

EnhanceMyVista. Free and packed with features but I suspect it could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

HD Tune. A nice little Disk utility but very teckie and only really of use if you are sure that you have a disk problem.

Vista Manager. The best so far. It covers just about every switchable feature you can think of. I have not had to run regedit since I got it. It also contains its own system restore which it reminds you about before you change anything.

It is still a good idea to read the recommendations on the Black Viper site that buksida supplied to us:

http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/supertweaks.htm

As for services on vista you could do worse than using the good old British broadsheet, The Daily Torygraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/ma ... boot04.xml

Accurate info in layman's terms.

[margaretcarnes]

Hi Guess - yes I think you are right about my XP system. Interesting comment though on Karoo and their infrastructure. Cynics I know in the business would say that they simply make things too difficult for potential competitors, but they have always tried to stay at the forefront, particularly in the 70's with fibre optics.
Sorry this is a little off topic, but I did work for the old Telephone Dept (as it was until launched on the Stock Market in 99) so have always followed its progress. That progress has come at a cost, with the change from very low line rentals and 5p unlimited time local calls, to what is now an equivalent billing system to BT. Many of its' customers of course feel that if they are having to pay the same, they should have a choice, but KC invested heavily in operations well outside of its' original 'home' area geographically and, IMO, tried to run before it could walk.
But back to Vista - having just tried, and failed, to download Adobe Reader I'm spitting bricks with it again!

[Guess]

...........But back to Vista - having just tried, and failed, to download Adobe Reader I'm spitting bricks with it again!

I have had no problems with Adobe Reader 8.0 but I understand earlier versions did not work well on Vista. There is now 9.0 lite available for free and tested on Vista. I will try that soon.

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

[margaretcarnes]

Yes Guess it was the version 9 freebie I just tried. It appeared to complete and load fully, but when I went back to open a link which required Adobe it was back to square one.

[STEVE G]

Guess wrote:

Fubarred??? Same as buggered or F***ed??

From my times working with the American navy I can tell you that this means "f***ed up beyond all recognition."
Thats all I know about Vista!

[Guess]

I'm not so sure I'll take the plunge and go for the 64 bit operating system with all the problems it's doomed to generate, but sooner or later you will be forced to do it I guess.

You will not be forced for sometime. I cannot see 32 processors ending production until at least 2013 and then there will be about 3 years support afterwards.

I have not heard anything negative about 64bit Windows, in fact the contrary. 64 bit computing is still very much in the realm of the professional. Application and file servers and high powered workstations are the current market.

64 bit has only recently just started to penetrate the PC market.

Because of the nature of the users MS see development and support as being of the utmost importance. So, high on reliability but low on features. No toys. Many 64 bit boxes do not even have consoles so graphics are totally wasted.

Interesting from Randy that he has a 64bit AMD CPU. That I believe is a first in a laptop and shows that they are now competitive on price.

So the overtaking date I quoted earlier is on the cards.

This site covers most of what we have discussed including driver support.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/wi ... ff_x64.asp

This will help Randy if he wants to migrate.

Tip: Windows Vista Ultimate comes with both 32-bit (x86) and 64-bit (x64) versions in the box, on separate DVDs; purhcasers of other retail 32-bit Vista versions can order the 64-bit version from Microsoft for a nominal fee.

As for upgrades, I do not recommend a jump from XP to 64 bit Vista. If you get printer or other peripheral problems you won't know what has caused them.

The ideal method of upgrade is:

Facilitate dual boot. If you only have one physical disk the get an external USB drive and make sure your BIOS supports boot from USB.

Upgrade your existent machine with a second boot partition with Vista installed.

Get everything up and running especially printers and get familiar with Vista.

When you are finally ready to move to 64 bit, get a machine of at least double the specification that MS claim and migrate. This way you will be going from Vista to Vista so should be smoother.

Back on printer. It is my experience that if you start to get problems it is time to renew. The cost is in the refills rather than the printer so you may save money by getting a more efficient printer that is supported on all current platforms.

BTW. Microsoft now have an operating system roadmap which means that releases will go out when planned rather than when MS feel the time is right. You will be able to see ahead as to when your printer support will discontinued and plan for it.