That was well remembered, Mags. 
M/F ratio effects culture ?? HOW
I will say it again it is what you see not what you don’t see
So lets turn the debate on its head and start at 100 to 100
BB mentions Katoeys well I agree because as I stated boys numbers go down by one and girls go up by one (simple maths)lets say that 5% are katoeys that gives us 95 to 105
Someone mentioned boys killing themselves on M/C I agree so lets say 5% die on M/Cs now we have 90 to 105
WL says monks I agree so lets say another 5% become monks (I actually think WL figure of 100,000 is way low) we now have 85 to 105
Now unless I am mistaken that figure means 20 of the original 100 girls are short of a male to marry and procreate if that is not an imbalance please feel free to explain what you think it is
It also says in spades if you did the survey no way on this planet will you over a period of time days and instances at random be able to maintain a figure of 1 to 1
Remember I did not ask what did you think the ratio should be I asked what ratio do you observe/see/physically count, most thais I ask say 70% to 30% that’s 2.33 to 1
But hell what do they know They are being to lazy working 6 X 10hour days a week
Boys and girls are Born brought up and educated by their elders in this system I am merely asking the 5 questions pertaining to the fact that at age 21,, 20 girls have no chance of marriage to a boy of their own age and therefore are prepared to settle for older men and being mere noys. Boys on the other hand expect to being handed everything on a plate That is not the way it is in Europe or n America
I believe that imbalance is greater than I have explained but even at the low number I believe it is one of the driving factors as to how Thais make even small life decisions
Hence the 5 questions based on that imbalance
So lets turn the debate on its head and start at 100 to 100
BB mentions Katoeys well I agree because as I stated boys numbers go down by one and girls go up by one (simple maths)lets say that 5% are katoeys that gives us 95 to 105
Someone mentioned boys killing themselves on M/C I agree so lets say 5% die on M/Cs now we have 90 to 105
WL says monks I agree so lets say another 5% become monks (I actually think WL figure of 100,000 is way low) we now have 85 to 105
Now unless I am mistaken that figure means 20 of the original 100 girls are short of a male to marry and procreate if that is not an imbalance please feel free to explain what you think it is
It also says in spades if you did the survey no way on this planet will you over a period of time days and instances at random be able to maintain a figure of 1 to 1
Remember I did not ask what did you think the ratio should be I asked what ratio do you observe/see/physically count, most thais I ask say 70% to 30% that’s 2.33 to 1
But hell what do they know They are being to lazy working 6 X 10hour days a week
Boys and girls are Born brought up and educated by their elders in this system I am merely asking the 5 questions pertaining to the fact that at age 21,, 20 girls have no chance of marriage to a boy of their own age and therefore are prepared to settle for older men and being mere noys. Boys on the other hand expect to being handed everything on a plate That is not the way it is in Europe or n America
I believe that imbalance is greater than I have explained but even at the low number I believe it is one of the driving factors as to how Thais make even small life decisions
Hence the 5 questions based on that imbalance
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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sandman67
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I gotta say I agree somewhat with sarge....the stats dont bear out observations. Then again Ive never seen the inside of a car plant or a computer factory here. what stumps me is whenever you see these on the news it still seems there are 2 women for every man. The only overbalance I see the other way is the police, army and the pigsty they call Parliament, which are distinctly male.
The village Mrs S comes from seems overstocked on females as well.
In answer to the OP questions:
1) Dunno mate. I come from a matriarchal family where the men work and the women run things. Im used to a female hand at the helm. I guess we all, of our generation, are. Things are different now....and frankly if the UK sank below the waves I wouldnt shed a tear. If that imablance did happen Id hope the place was run better and on a more compassionate less beligerant empire dreams basis. Mind you....look what happened when Mad Mags got in.....my England died.
2) Yes - Thailand is still emerging from an agrarian society into a developed industrial and tertiary service industry social base where women play greater roles. They are lagging behind us but thats because of their economic basis (amongst other reasons for the lag). social attitudes here will change, but slower as they have a very male orientated social culture. That wont change fast.
3) They dont and wont till more women are at the top of the heap and their voices get heard. The recent stupidity over thai women with a foriegn husband owning land as a nominee is a perfect example of the one sided bigoted politics of Thailand. Politicians are usually pigs and toads....at least here they look like them as well. Women like Rosana the Senator are the edge of an iceberg. Give it 20 more years and we may see a female prime minister....pray it aint Toxin's sister.
4) I dont see anything would change. It needs massive cultural shifts before Thais see women and men as equal.
5) Not one bit. I just write off culture clashes as difference that should be looked at as just that..... each system has its values and faults. If a thai cant see that they should sometimes listen to voices that come from wisdom and knowledge gained through a long history of buggering up and fixing things thats their loss. I just look after me and mine, and help out others wherever I can along the way. If they wont learn from our mistakes let them repeat them and learn for themselves. The only way I found of understanding Thai culture is via a book.
The village Mrs S comes from seems overstocked on females as well.
In answer to the OP questions:
1) Dunno mate. I come from a matriarchal family where the men work and the women run things. Im used to a female hand at the helm. I guess we all, of our generation, are. Things are different now....and frankly if the UK sank below the waves I wouldnt shed a tear. If that imablance did happen Id hope the place was run better and on a more compassionate less beligerant empire dreams basis. Mind you....look what happened when Mad Mags got in.....my England died.
2) Yes - Thailand is still emerging from an agrarian society into a developed industrial and tertiary service industry social base where women play greater roles. They are lagging behind us but thats because of their economic basis (amongst other reasons for the lag). social attitudes here will change, but slower as they have a very male orientated social culture. That wont change fast.
3) They dont and wont till more women are at the top of the heap and their voices get heard. The recent stupidity over thai women with a foriegn husband owning land as a nominee is a perfect example of the one sided bigoted politics of Thailand. Politicians are usually pigs and toads....at least here they look like them as well. Women like Rosana the Senator are the edge of an iceberg. Give it 20 more years and we may see a female prime minister....pray it aint Toxin's sister.
4) I dont see anything would change. It needs massive cultural shifts before Thais see women and men as equal.
5) Not one bit. I just write off culture clashes as difference that should be looked at as just that..... each system has its values and faults. If a thai cant see that they should sometimes listen to voices that come from wisdom and knowledge gained through a long history of buggering up and fixing things thats their loss. I just look after me and mine, and help out others wherever I can along the way. If they wont learn from our mistakes let them repeat them and learn for themselves. The only way I found of understanding Thai culture is via a book.
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
Sarge,
The foundation of this thread is that your powers of observation together with that of your rice exporting friend is better than anybody else's. Many of the stats presented to you have been put together by trained statisticians. In general, the statistician's figures are those which relate to most poster's own recommendation.
In an earlier post you said
We accept that your eagle eye army training means you can can count/see things better than us mere mortals, but you need to give us something to work on to retain the thread's credibility.
The foundation of this thread is that your powers of observation together with that of your rice exporting friend is better than anybody else's. Many of the stats presented to you have been put together by trained statisticians. In general, the statistician's figures are those which relate to most poster's own recommendation.
In an earlier post you said
If you are so certain that you are right, then rather than let this thread deteriorate in to a grand 'mine is better than yours' argument; why not come clean and give us something real to work on.Believe me when i am ready i will blow the figures you all can come up with it is quite astounding
We accept that your eagle eye army training means you can can count/see things better than us mere mortals, but you need to give us something to work on to retain the thread's credibility.
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The big flaw is that if you just count people in the street when you're out and about, you're just counting mainly women going about domestic activities.
I've just returned to the UK and having just walked to the bank and supermarket I've just seen the same thing, about 75% female.
Also almost all the staff in the bank and supermarket were women, but here it's plainly obvious that all the men are in offices and factories at eleven o'clock in the morning.
I've just returned to the UK and having just walked to the bank and supermarket I've just seen the same thing, about 75% female.
Also almost all the staff in the bank and supermarket were women, but here it's plainly obvious that all the men are in offices and factories at eleven o'clock in the morning.
I just did my own personal survey. I looked around my house and yard and there are two males (one is a dog) and two females (one is a dog). Since I don't leave home much it's 1:1 in my world. 
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
SM thank you for actually answering the questions it is like a breath of fresh air and although not all your answers meet with what i think however that may be i am very interested in your views and will put them in my bank and when there are a few more i will try and balance them in my own mind and at my therapissed sessions and come back to you on them
BB i did not ask for statistics i asked for observation which is nothing like the same thing
Steve doing it at one place at one time is as you say flawed but doing it at random in different places and different times does give a different picture 25 penis years ive been doing it
Just for your interest in my Street there are 32 town houses 5 are empty 3 are occupied with 3 females and NO NIL males
one is two females NO NIL male
Two are three females and one male (one being MIB)
my house is one female alone (i dont count) another house further down the street is the same the farang doesnt count
so far 19 females to two males
next door is 2 males one female
and across the street is three males two females
At the top of the street are 2 houses owned by the same family and they have five females and three males (this doesnt include the three female members living in Switzerland )
two are three males to two females (same family)
all the rest are husband and wife ie one to one or two to two
just observation BB
you are all welcome to come and observe bring your own drink i am short of tea bags until sis arrives 29th (with new laptop) oh and we are wifi so you will be able to poll your observation while you are here
BB i did not ask for statistics i asked for observation which is nothing like the same thing
Steve doing it at one place at one time is as you say flawed but doing it at random in different places and different times does give a different picture 25 penis years ive been doing it
Just for your interest in my Street there are 32 town houses 5 are empty 3 are occupied with 3 females and NO NIL males
one is two females NO NIL male
Two are three females and one male (one being MIB)
my house is one female alone (i dont count) another house further down the street is the same the farang doesnt count
so far 19 females to two males
next door is 2 males one female
and across the street is three males two females
At the top of the street are 2 houses owned by the same family and they have five females and three males (this doesnt include the three female members living in Switzerland )
two are three males to two females (same family)
all the rest are husband and wife ie one to one or two to two
just observation BB
you are all welcome to come and observe bring your own drink i am short of tea bags until sis arrives 29th (with new laptop) oh and we are wifi so you will be able to poll your observation while you are here
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Re: M/F Culure effects ratio?? - How
I won't complain, where do I go to sign up?margaretcarnes wrote:Its not too much of a leap to imagine minority males starting to complain about being treated just as sex objects is it?
Talk is cheap
BB i did not ask for statistics i asked for observation which is nothing like the same thing
I still don't buy it. Surely, no matter how well travelled you maybe within Thailand, your eyes cannot see beyond any horizon. There is a hell of a lot of Thailand that, at any point in time, you just can't observe.
The statisticians do the next best thing and gather their information from a variety of sources. Maybe you need to answer the question, "Why are your 2 eye better than the experts trained in gathering information?"
You then go on to quote your Soi. How many Sois are there in Thailand? Why do we have to accept that your Soi is representative of the whole of Thailand?
I ask again:
If you are so certain that you are right, then rather than let this thread deteriorate in to a grand 'mine is better than yours' argument; why not come clean and give us something real to work on?
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd
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margaretcarnes
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M/F Culure effects ratio?? - How
Hmmmm... Sarges' Soi may not be representative of all Sois in LOS. Just as HH itself isn't representative of all towns there. But his own Soi survey is worthy of some thought I think. Would be interesting if others did the same quick head/house count in their own neighbourhood?
Last year Lomu commented that Thai girls were moving into a nearby house in his Soi. When I had an apartment on Naeb. the one next door was latterly occupied by Thai girls.
My street of 23 properties here in England has only one man living alone, and at least 4 women on their own. OK - demographics here plays a part as there are more widows than widowers, and divorced women tend to stay single in greater numbers than divorced men. Single women are also more likely now to buy their own properties, and marry later in life than maybe 20/30 years ago.
In HH maybe a lot of single women occupiers are living apart from their families out in the sticks. Whatever the reasons I don't believe answers specific to HH will be gained from official statistics. Thais have to travel to their home Province to vote right? And - will stand corrected on this - don't they also have to register births etc in their home Province, as well as obtain the 30baht health care in it?
So how exactly are population stats compiled in LOS, and do they show population movement as they do in other countries?
Sorry this is drifting a bit Sarge but I think it's relevant to your observations.
Last year Lomu commented that Thai girls were moving into a nearby house in his Soi. When I had an apartment on Naeb. the one next door was latterly occupied by Thai girls.
My street of 23 properties here in England has only one man living alone, and at least 4 women on their own. OK - demographics here plays a part as there are more widows than widowers, and divorced women tend to stay single in greater numbers than divorced men. Single women are also more likely now to buy their own properties, and marry later in life than maybe 20/30 years ago.
In HH maybe a lot of single women occupiers are living apart from their families out in the sticks. Whatever the reasons I don't believe answers specific to HH will be gained from official statistics. Thais have to travel to their home Province to vote right? And - will stand corrected on this - don't they also have to register births etc in their home Province, as well as obtain the 30baht health care in it?
So how exactly are population stats compiled in LOS, and do they show population movement as they do in other countries?
Sorry this is drifting a bit Sarge but I think it's relevant to your observations.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
Answers:
1. A 'sudden' imbalance: We did see a sudden imbalance in the West (though certainly not 3 or 4 to 1) during WW2, when so many men went off to the war. The result was women entering the workplace in unprecedented numbers, and in traditionally male jobs, 'Rosie the Riveter' being the archetype. That is already the case in Thailand, and it's not hard to find women working on road crews, construction sites, etc. I tried to find the reference for this, but I remember reading of European visitors commenting on the number of women working in what they considered traditionally male jobs long ago. I think it was in "Thailand: A Short History".
In America at least, this change in the workforce may have contributed to the women's lib movement.
2. Whether the imbalance is real or merely perceived, one of the obvious effects would seem to be that a man having multiple wives would not be too rare, whereas a woman having multiple husbands would be. That is polygamy would be more common than polyandry. The exception here would be bar girls who may have a Thai husband or boyfriend as well as one or more foreign sponsors. 'Mia noi' and 'baan lek' are pretty common terms in Thai and represent recognized relationships, not merely promiscuity. (I did offer to become one lady's 'sami noi' because she gave such good massages.)
Another effect might be that we would see many women in the workplace doing man's work because there aren't enough men to do it.
One more effect might be that women would be willing to steal a man if they thought he wasn't too bad. The urge to mate is pretty strong.
3. I don't expect politicians to understand much except power and money.
4. Less promiscuity? More respect for women? More stability in relationships?
5. Anything that helps me understand the baffling behavior I see here is good. Even if Sarge is as wrong as possible, it's simply a fun, interesting thing to consider.
Comment:
Sarge and I began discussing this during his problems with the missus. I think it started from the simple remark that if things went totally wrong and they split, it certainly wouldn't be hard to find a woman to take care of him. This led to several fairly long discussions about demographics.
I first noticed an apparent imbalance in Phuket about three years ago, and attributed it to Phuket being a tourist area and women flocking there to work in hotels, restaurants, etc. as well as the bars. Kata, where I was staying, had a rather small bar area compared to Patong, so I wasn't really thinking about bar girls. It was also in Phuket that I first noticed female construction workers.
Here in Hua Hin I really hadn't paid much attention until we started discussing it. However, I had noticed that in my girlfriend's town in rural Ratchaburi there seemed to be a lot more women than men. Her extended family, and it is a rather large one, seems to have about two females for every male. That ratio holds for the six houses nearest the gf's mum's house. Most of those houses are owned by relatives. Most of the small pineapple processing plants around her home are owned by aunts or female cousins. She also seems to have a preponderance of female relatives elsewhere.
When I asked her about the ratio of men to women in Thailand her response was, "They say it's about seventy percent women." By 'they' she apparently meant the Thai government, but she has not produced a reference.
Here in Hua Hin is that I usually see more women than men, with ratios ranging from 1.25 to 1 to 4 to 1, but, in the case of one minibus ride, 9 men and 3 women. Actually getting an accurate count is difficult, so I only count people who pass a certain point I'm watching. Counting in Bintabaht is a bit silly, but actually yielded the lowest ratio of all, with Market Village yielding the highest. I didn't count girls in bars, only Thai people who walked past a certain point.
I just spent four days in my girlfriend's town and while I wouldn't think the ratio was even as high as 2 to 1, I certainly saw more women than men, including in the backs of trucks going off to work the fields or construction jobs, etc. About the only time I see more men than women is when I get together with buddies for a piss up or go to a police party - then it's almost 100% men, but I see those same guys in other places, usually with more women than men. I am hoping to take wide angle photographs at monk parties and other local celebrations that would be attended by a large percentage of the community. This would at least help me make a better estimate of the local demographic.
Her town is definitely not a tourist area. In many trips up there, I've only seen one other Westerner, and I've heard of one more. Until the coup and subsequent changes in price supports, bad global economy, etc. her area was comparatively affluent, so less people may have moved away to work.
If anyone wants to post numbers or estimates from upcountry, that is much more interesting to me than numbers from Hua Hin or any other tourist area. I expect to see more women here for the same reasons I did in Phuket - tourism.
While upcountry I asked four male Thai friends, "Are there more men or women in Thailand?" Three of the four answered 'women'. The fourth, the most rural, said he'd rarely been far from home so he couldn't speak for all of Thailand, but around home it seemed about even to him. I would canvass the entire town, but I don't have time and they already think I'm a little crazy. Canvassing the town would make them absolutely sure.
Spitfire certainly had some interesting comments in regards to the ratios within the educational system. Too bad my Thai isn't good enough to attend a university! Thanks for the information about primary and secondary schools. I just can't bring myself to lurk around a school counting kids.
I looked up the statistics after my first conversation with Sarge, so I'm not unaware of them, nor even concerned. I'm trying to talk to Thais to learn their perceptions of the ratio of men to women. If a majority of people believe that there are more available women than men, wouldn't that belief itself affect behavior? Certainly I have nowhere near a large enough sample at the moment to guess WHAT most Thais think about this, even in my gf's town.
Someone mentioned a possible imbalance between the numbers of potential mates. This may be the real 'issue', if you can call it that. Even a small imbalance, say 1.1 or 1.2 to 1 in the 20 - 40 age bracket would lead to a large number of single women. For me, it's less of an issue than simply something to look at, mostly for fun. And I get to watch a lot of girls!
The only figure I have for monks is from 1976 - then there were 213,175 monks not counting novices, and 10,529 nuns, according to a census quoted in "Inside Thai Society", by Niels Mulder.
Yeah, Sarge is a loon, but he's a fun loon, and I've spent many hours talking with him, usually sober. All he's done is take a set of observations regarding cultural differences, and another set of observations regarding the apparent ratio of males to females, and formed a hypothesis from those observations. At the very least, he is thinking about something that seems to be a big part of Thai life, and certainly of our lives here. How many board members who live here don't have a Thai wife or girlfriend? Is it really all just about money or could the woman in question not find a suitable Thai mate? How many board members have had a Thai woman, not a bargirl, make it obvious or state outright that she is available if you get tired of your wife/girlfriend or she doesn't take good care of you? I'm neither handsome nor wealthy, but it's happened to me more than once with women upcountry who speak no English and are 'friends' of my girlfriend. Nothing like that ever happened at home.
To make a long post endless, the Thai men I know are not very lazy. While you might see me sitting with friends around a concrete table having a few beers in the afternoon, it doesn't mean they never work. Several of my friends have more than one job, but still have a bit of extra time on an occasional afternoon. Wednesday afternoon when I went to visit a friend, he was studying law while his wife played cards.
1. A 'sudden' imbalance: We did see a sudden imbalance in the West (though certainly not 3 or 4 to 1) during WW2, when so many men went off to the war. The result was women entering the workplace in unprecedented numbers, and in traditionally male jobs, 'Rosie the Riveter' being the archetype. That is already the case in Thailand, and it's not hard to find women working on road crews, construction sites, etc. I tried to find the reference for this, but I remember reading of European visitors commenting on the number of women working in what they considered traditionally male jobs long ago. I think it was in "Thailand: A Short History".
In America at least, this change in the workforce may have contributed to the women's lib movement.
2. Whether the imbalance is real or merely perceived, one of the obvious effects would seem to be that a man having multiple wives would not be too rare, whereas a woman having multiple husbands would be. That is polygamy would be more common than polyandry. The exception here would be bar girls who may have a Thai husband or boyfriend as well as one or more foreign sponsors. 'Mia noi' and 'baan lek' are pretty common terms in Thai and represent recognized relationships, not merely promiscuity. (I did offer to become one lady's 'sami noi' because she gave such good massages.
)Another effect might be that we would see many women in the workplace doing man's work because there aren't enough men to do it.
One more effect might be that women would be willing to steal a man if they thought he wasn't too bad. The urge to mate is pretty strong.
3. I don't expect politicians to understand much except power and money.
4. Less promiscuity? More respect for women? More stability in relationships?
5. Anything that helps me understand the baffling behavior I see here is good. Even if Sarge is as wrong as possible, it's simply a fun, interesting thing to consider.
Comment:
Sarge and I began discussing this during his problems with the missus. I think it started from the simple remark that if things went totally wrong and they split, it certainly wouldn't be hard to find a woman to take care of him. This led to several fairly long discussions about demographics.
I first noticed an apparent imbalance in Phuket about three years ago, and attributed it to Phuket being a tourist area and women flocking there to work in hotels, restaurants, etc. as well as the bars. Kata, where I was staying, had a rather small bar area compared to Patong, so I wasn't really thinking about bar girls. It was also in Phuket that I first noticed female construction workers.
Here in Hua Hin I really hadn't paid much attention until we started discussing it. However, I had noticed that in my girlfriend's town in rural Ratchaburi there seemed to be a lot more women than men. Her extended family, and it is a rather large one, seems to have about two females for every male. That ratio holds for the six houses nearest the gf's mum's house. Most of those houses are owned by relatives. Most of the small pineapple processing plants around her home are owned by aunts or female cousins. She also seems to have a preponderance of female relatives elsewhere.
When I asked her about the ratio of men to women in Thailand her response was, "They say it's about seventy percent women." By 'they' she apparently meant the Thai government, but she has not produced a reference.
Here in Hua Hin is that I usually see more women than men, with ratios ranging from 1.25 to 1 to 4 to 1, but, in the case of one minibus ride, 9 men and 3 women. Actually getting an accurate count is difficult, so I only count people who pass a certain point I'm watching. Counting in Bintabaht is a bit silly, but actually yielded the lowest ratio of all, with Market Village yielding the highest. I didn't count girls in bars, only Thai people who walked past a certain point.
I just spent four days in my girlfriend's town and while I wouldn't think the ratio was even as high as 2 to 1, I certainly saw more women than men, including in the backs of trucks going off to work the fields or construction jobs, etc. About the only time I see more men than women is when I get together with buddies for a piss up or go to a police party - then it's almost 100% men, but I see those same guys in other places, usually with more women than men. I am hoping to take wide angle photographs at monk parties and other local celebrations that would be attended by a large percentage of the community. This would at least help me make a better estimate of the local demographic.
Her town is definitely not a tourist area. In many trips up there, I've only seen one other Westerner, and I've heard of one more. Until the coup and subsequent changes in price supports, bad global economy, etc. her area was comparatively affluent, so less people may have moved away to work.
If anyone wants to post numbers or estimates from upcountry, that is much more interesting to me than numbers from Hua Hin or any other tourist area. I expect to see more women here for the same reasons I did in Phuket - tourism.
While upcountry I asked four male Thai friends, "Are there more men or women in Thailand?" Three of the four answered 'women'. The fourth, the most rural, said he'd rarely been far from home so he couldn't speak for all of Thailand, but around home it seemed about even to him. I would canvass the entire town, but I don't have time and they already think I'm a little crazy. Canvassing the town would make them absolutely sure.
Spitfire certainly had some interesting comments in regards to the ratios within the educational system. Too bad my Thai isn't good enough to attend a university! Thanks for the information about primary and secondary schools. I just can't bring myself to lurk around a school counting kids.
I looked up the statistics after my first conversation with Sarge, so I'm not unaware of them, nor even concerned. I'm trying to talk to Thais to learn their perceptions of the ratio of men to women. If a majority of people believe that there are more available women than men, wouldn't that belief itself affect behavior? Certainly I have nowhere near a large enough sample at the moment to guess WHAT most Thais think about this, even in my gf's town.
Someone mentioned a possible imbalance between the numbers of potential mates. This may be the real 'issue', if you can call it that. Even a small imbalance, say 1.1 or 1.2 to 1 in the 20 - 40 age bracket would lead to a large number of single women. For me, it's less of an issue than simply something to look at, mostly for fun. And I get to watch a lot of girls!
The only figure I have for monks is from 1976 - then there were 213,175 monks not counting novices, and 10,529 nuns, according to a census quoted in "Inside Thai Society", by Niels Mulder.
Yeah, Sarge is a loon, but he's a fun loon, and I've spent many hours talking with him, usually sober. All he's done is take a set of observations regarding cultural differences, and another set of observations regarding the apparent ratio of males to females, and formed a hypothesis from those observations. At the very least, he is thinking about something that seems to be a big part of Thai life, and certainly of our lives here. How many board members who live here don't have a Thai wife or girlfriend? Is it really all just about money or could the woman in question not find a suitable Thai mate? How many board members have had a Thai woman, not a bargirl, make it obvious or state outright that she is available if you get tired of your wife/girlfriend or she doesn't take good care of you? I'm neither handsome nor wealthy, but it's happened to me more than once with women upcountry who speak no English and are 'friends' of my girlfriend. Nothing like that ever happened at home.
To make a long post endless, the Thai men I know are not very lazy. While you might see me sitting with friends around a concrete table having a few beers in the afternoon, it doesn't mean they never work. Several of my friends have more than one job, but still have a bit of extra time on an occasional afternoon. Wednesday afternoon when I went to visit a friend, he was studying law while his wife played cards.
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margaretcarnes
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M/F Culure effects ratio?? - How
Some excellent points there HHADF - not least your doubts about the accuracy of 'official' stats as applied to Thailand. I'm still dubious about how they are collected, especially as you say the locals don't seem to pay much heed, but just 'know'... which is what I would expect there.
So does the village headman simply consult the banyan tree at census time I wonder?
Looking at the 2 links earlier to wikepedia and index mundi - both use the CIA World Factbook as a source. But there still seems to be a discrepancy in m/f ratios for under 15 year olds. Although the overall ratios are consistent with many other countries, at about 1.05 to 1, the figures for infant mortality in LOS are 19.5 per 1000 for boys and 16.89 per 1000 for girls.
Without doing the maths this would appear to be a substantial imbalance. Add to that the likely high number of deaths of boys in LOS for obvious reasons, and I can't see how LOS can come in the same m/f balance range as many European countries for the same age group.
Maybe a maths geek could cast an eye over the CIA figures for us?
As far as Thai women choosing farang men goes, you've made me re-think my previous view of their reasons. To be fair, many Thai/Farang marriages do work well. Maybe the minority cloud our view, mine included. The Thai women I've discussed this with in the past have often said that they simply don't want to marry a Thai man. Their jokey (kway yai) reasons aside, maybe they subconsciously seek to dilute the cultural gene pool? Maybe they are dissatisfied with traditional male dominence and 'mia noi' culture? And of course the farangs available to them ARE often older, simply because the older ones are more able to afford to live in LOS.
Just a few thoughts.
So does the village headman simply consult the banyan tree at census time I wonder?
Looking at the 2 links earlier to wikepedia and index mundi - both use the CIA World Factbook as a source. But there still seems to be a discrepancy in m/f ratios for under 15 year olds. Although the overall ratios are consistent with many other countries, at about 1.05 to 1, the figures for infant mortality in LOS are 19.5 per 1000 for boys and 16.89 per 1000 for girls.
Without doing the maths this would appear to be a substantial imbalance. Add to that the likely high number of deaths of boys in LOS for obvious reasons, and I can't see how LOS can come in the same m/f balance range as many European countries for the same age group.
Maybe a maths geek could cast an eye over the CIA figures for us?
As far as Thai women choosing farang men goes, you've made me re-think my previous view of their reasons. To be fair, many Thai/Farang marriages do work well. Maybe the minority cloud our view, mine included. The Thai women I've discussed this with in the past have often said that they simply don't want to marry a Thai man. Their jokey (kway yai) reasons aside, maybe they subconsciously seek to dilute the cultural gene pool? Maybe they are dissatisfied with traditional male dominence and 'mia noi' culture? And of course the farangs available to them ARE often older, simply because the older ones are more able to afford to live in LOS.
Just a few thoughts.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
According to the Labour force survey of the national statistics office, over the age of fifteen there are 24.45 million men of which 19.43 million work and 25.94 women of which 16.06 million work. (2nd quarter of 2006)
http://web.nso.go.th/eng/stat/lfs_e/lfse.htm
Table 8.
http://web.nso.go.th/eng/stat/lfs_e/lfse.htm
Table 8.