I agree with your wife fft, many would take a more inhumane route.
I hope it all works out well for you.
t2
mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
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traveller2
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Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
That sounds like a plan!
I agree with your wife fft, many would take a more inhumane route.
I hope it all works out well for you.
t2
I agree with your wife fft, many would take a more inhumane route.
I hope it all works out well for you.
t2
wysiwyg (what you see is what you get)
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dtaai-maai
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Vital Spark
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Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
fft100 - You're in a really difficult position regarding what to do with these little wild kittens (and their mum). One thing I would say is that I very much doubt that you'll be able to find someone to humanely 'dispose' of them. Most vets won't do it - even if the animal is in serious pain.
When we lived in Petchaburi we ended up with two semi-wild female dogs giving birth (within a week of each other) to a total of 13 pups. They were born in flower beds near our kitchen, so I couldn't ignore them. We fed them good food, so they were all healthy and cute. A local woman in the village took them away (two or three at a time) and sold them from her vegetable stall
. I have no idea where they went, or what happened to them after they were sold, but it was a solution to the problem.
If you could make sure that they get enough food so that they look cute and healthy, put pretty little collars on them, and then find someone to sell them on, it could be an option.
One more thing: I was told by a vet that the best milk to feed kittens or puppies is powdered baby milk. It builds them up and has all the vitamins a young animal needs. I know you don't want to keep them, but the fatter and cuter they are the more likely that someone will want to take them off your hands.
Good luck...I hope this story has a happy ending.
VS
When we lived in Petchaburi we ended up with two semi-wild female dogs giving birth (within a week of each other) to a total of 13 pups. They were born in flower beds near our kitchen, so I couldn't ignore them. We fed them good food, so they were all healthy and cute. A local woman in the village took them away (two or three at a time) and sold them from her vegetable stall
. I have no idea where they went, or what happened to them after they were sold, but it was a solution to the problem.If you could make sure that they get enough food so that they look cute and healthy, put pretty little collars on them, and then find someone to sell them on, it could be an option.
One more thing: I was told by a vet that the best milk to feed kittens or puppies is powdered baby milk. It builds them up and has all the vitamins a young animal needs. I know you don't want to keep them, but the fatter and cuter they are the more likely that someone will want to take them off your hands.
Good luck...I hope this story has a happy ending.
VS
"Properly trained, man can be a dog's best friend"
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
Good suggestion VS. This gets rid of the problem, and some Thai local gets to earn a bit of cash in the process. At some point though, the OP will need to get the kittens away from the mother and then keep them separated until they are sold off. With each day that passes, those kittens are learning their mother's feral behavior, and not many people will be willing to purchase a kitten if it's hissing and trying to bite/scratch them.
I also agree that it will be almost impossible to find a vet willing to put them down. In fact, you probably won't even find a local vet that's willing to work with them if they needed it. A number of local vets only seem to be interested in treating toy breed dogs wearing little pink ribbons.......lol.
Good luck
I also agree that it will be almost impossible to find a vet willing to put them down. In fact, you probably won't even find a local vet that's willing to work with them if they needed it. A number of local vets only seem to be interested in treating toy breed dogs wearing little pink ribbons.......lol.
Good luck
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
VS,
interesting idea. Further looks indicate they are maybe only a couple of weeks old (max) and so are still on mothers milk. eyes are open, and distinctly non-aggresive. crawling a small amount. two attachments - so people can see. perhaps i have the ages completely wrong ! btw, the two shirts are old ones i threw up there last week when it was raining and cold. completely ignored.
Getting hold of them now, when mother is away for an hour at a time, would be possible, but i think would need to bottle feed them for a while and then gradually wean them on to solids. Oh, and mother would still be around, so unless she was 'removed' from the scene somehow that would be a big problem. BTW, getting hold of mother could be a problem. Even 2 metres from her on the roof holding food and she is hissing, spitting and the like. That could be becasue of the kittens, but when she is on the ground, i cant get closer than 5 metres before she is arching her back, teeth bared before running away.
To then get them bulked up would take a month or so, and during that time i would need to keep them away from the 20 month old daughter (scary/dangerous for both sides i would think !)
I understand that the longer they remain with mother, the worse they will get, but i dont think i can really look after them in the house with my daughter there. Thats the problem. Otherwise, i would probably have a go at bringing them all up (if mother was out of the scene). We have taken stray cats before and had them neutered and looked after them. But both were obviously previously domesticated, one is so soft and unthreatening that she is elsewhere in the family after a young nephew fell in love with it (he stays with it all day whenever it looks vaguely unwell and when his dad broke its leg by accident with the car he cried for a day and wouldnt speak to his dad for a week !)
strangely, the mother isnt a big milk drinker. full fat milk seems to be a no-no. baby milk also is ignored, but low fat milk seems ok, but she doesnt normally drink it all. I have done taste tests at the same time with different milks. sad, but true....
interesting idea. Further looks indicate they are maybe only a couple of weeks old (max) and so are still on mothers milk. eyes are open, and distinctly non-aggresive. crawling a small amount. two attachments - so people can see. perhaps i have the ages completely wrong ! btw, the two shirts are old ones i threw up there last week when it was raining and cold. completely ignored.
Getting hold of them now, when mother is away for an hour at a time, would be possible, but i think would need to bottle feed them for a while and then gradually wean them on to solids. Oh, and mother would still be around, so unless she was 'removed' from the scene somehow that would be a big problem. BTW, getting hold of mother could be a problem. Even 2 metres from her on the roof holding food and she is hissing, spitting and the like. That could be becasue of the kittens, but when she is on the ground, i cant get closer than 5 metres before she is arching her back, teeth bared before running away.
To then get them bulked up would take a month or so, and during that time i would need to keep them away from the 20 month old daughter (scary/dangerous for both sides i would think !)
I understand that the longer they remain with mother, the worse they will get, but i dont think i can really look after them in the house with my daughter there. Thats the problem. Otherwise, i would probably have a go at bringing them all up (if mother was out of the scene). We have taken stray cats before and had them neutered and looked after them. But both were obviously previously domesticated, one is so soft and unthreatening that she is elsewhere in the family after a young nephew fell in love with it (he stays with it all day whenever it looks vaguely unwell and when his dad broke its leg by accident with the car he cried for a day and wouldnt speak to his dad for a week !)
strangely, the mother isnt a big milk drinker. full fat milk seems to be a no-no. baby milk also is ignored, but low fat milk seems ok, but she doesnt normally drink it all. I have done taste tests at the same time with different milks. sad, but true....
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Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
Just read your post about the kittens on the roof. In my experience (and believe me I have had plenty re mothers and kittens) why can't you just leave them until they get older and move on. If they are feral cats the mother will make sure they are fine. The kittens will not touch solid food until they are about 6-8 weeks anyway and generally best to give them kitten food. The mother is the one who will need nourishing as she will be feeding her babies milk. Of course she will spit and hiss at anyone because she is only defending her young. Generally mothers find a dark place for to have their kittens and as they get older move them to somewhere else for safety. I doubt they wll be a problem to your 20 month old baby as long as you keep an eye on her.
As I said I have had a lot of experience with mothers having kittens when I lived in the Middle East (situation re cats there is terrible although the Vets are trying to do something about it now) and I used to feed the mother and their kittens when they were younger, in fact the mothers would bring them to me when they were older for feeding. I was off the opinion that if you gave the kittens a good start in life then it was up to them to move on. Some did move on and some didn't. Some kittens died of the heat or were run over on the roads.
What does concern me now though as I read in one of your replies that the vets will not put an animal down even if they are in serious pain!
As I said I have had a lot of experience with mothers having kittens when I lived in the Middle East (situation re cats there is terrible although the Vets are trying to do something about it now) and I used to feed the mother and their kittens when they were younger, in fact the mothers would bring them to me when they were older for feeding. I was off the opinion that if you gave the kittens a good start in life then it was up to them to move on. Some did move on and some didn't. Some kittens died of the heat or were run over on the roads.
What does concern me now though as I read in one of your replies that the vets will not put an animal down even if they are in serious pain!
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
Feline, you probably could find a vet willing to do the deed, but as a general rule, the vast majority don't agree with our way of thinking, and prefer to rather let nature do its thing.
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
That's good to hear Takiap it's put my mind at rest. I would hate to think one of my animals was suffering and couldn't be put out of its misery because of their way of thinking. 
Obviously I understand Vets are their to help animals and I am totally behind them 100% and agree nature does have a habit of intervening but sometimes everyone needs a little help and that includes animals.
Obviously I understand Vets are their to help animals and I am totally behind them 100% and agree nature does have a habit of intervening but sometimes everyone needs a little help and that includes animals.
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
wow ! what a morning. Yesterday, i noticed that the cat had moved the kittens to the matching corner on the other side of the underhang (see picture above - and go left about 4 metres). same clearance, but possibly slightly cooler.
This morning, no cats. gone. Except that we could hear a mewing from a kitten. Only one. But where was it coming from ? My wife got onto the terrace roof (having to squeeze through a gap not much more than 2 feet high from a ladder). We thought it might be in the gutter on the overhanging roof above the terrace roof. Nothing there. And, of course, the kitten had gone quiet.
After she gets down, the mewing starts again. Her sister went in the main house roof space to see if she had managed to get in there, but 20 minutes of searching found nothing, and the kitten mewed again which proved she wasnt in the main house roof space.
Which left only the terrace roof space. No more than 1 foot between the roof tiles and the ceiling boards underneath with lots of think insulation inside.
The mother cat was coming back every 10 minutes and on the final time she went straight to the corner of the roof. It was a definite.
My wife went up again (hero). This time the sun was on the roof tiles and she got some burn marks. There is a small (very small) hole around one of the supports coming down into the terrace roof. The kitten had gone down there, and was now in the corner. So my wife while laying down flat (the gap between the tiles at the back and the ceiling above of the main roof is about 1 foot at its smallest) had to prise the roof tile off (and there were bent nails at the back to stop it moving...), take out the insulation and there was the kitten. She pulled the kitten out, put back the insulation and put back the roof tile.
Should we leave the kitten on the roof and let mother find her ? The kitten started to go back to the hole, so no ! I took her off the roof, and placed her on some grass and walked away. The kitten followed me, and i had to put it back further away and just scarper. 2 minutes later, mother arrived, and a huge bonding session went on with lots of milk being passed from mother. The mother then carried the kitten over a wall and into another garden. Still came back for the food i put out :-) The kitten is obviously not feral yet, and had no problem with being carried, stroked and walking between my legs.
I was wondering why mother would have moved the kittens, and came up with 2 reasons.
1. The kitten may have fallen down the hole and mother thought it was too dangerous to stay there.
2. I think more likely - Mother knew that if the kittens get much bigger she would not be able to carry them off the roof, and they wouldnt be able to get off until they were 2-3 months old. Which would leave a large gap when mothers milk would not be enough and getting them food would be a problem. I suspect that the kitten fell down when mother was carrying another kitten away. It could have been the last kitten on the roof and it was scared.
I think we will still put food out for a few days and see what happens.
This morning, no cats. gone. Except that we could hear a mewing from a kitten. Only one. But where was it coming from ? My wife got onto the terrace roof (having to squeeze through a gap not much more than 2 feet high from a ladder). We thought it might be in the gutter on the overhanging roof above the terrace roof. Nothing there. And, of course, the kitten had gone quiet.
After she gets down, the mewing starts again. Her sister went in the main house roof space to see if she had managed to get in there, but 20 minutes of searching found nothing, and the kitten mewed again which proved she wasnt in the main house roof space.
Which left only the terrace roof space. No more than 1 foot between the roof tiles and the ceiling boards underneath with lots of think insulation inside.
The mother cat was coming back every 10 minutes and on the final time she went straight to the corner of the roof. It was a definite.
My wife went up again (hero). This time the sun was on the roof tiles and she got some burn marks. There is a small (very small) hole around one of the supports coming down into the terrace roof. The kitten had gone down there, and was now in the corner. So my wife while laying down flat (the gap between the tiles at the back and the ceiling above of the main roof is about 1 foot at its smallest) had to prise the roof tile off (and there were bent nails at the back to stop it moving...), take out the insulation and there was the kitten. She pulled the kitten out, put back the insulation and put back the roof tile.
Should we leave the kitten on the roof and let mother find her ? The kitten started to go back to the hole, so no ! I took her off the roof, and placed her on some grass and walked away. The kitten followed me, and i had to put it back further away and just scarper. 2 minutes later, mother arrived, and a huge bonding session went on with lots of milk being passed from mother. The mother then carried the kitten over a wall and into another garden. Still came back for the food i put out :-) The kitten is obviously not feral yet, and had no problem with being carried, stroked and walking between my legs.
I was wondering why mother would have moved the kittens, and came up with 2 reasons.
1. The kitten may have fallen down the hole and mother thought it was too dangerous to stay there.
2. I think more likely - Mother knew that if the kittens get much bigger she would not be able to carry them off the roof, and they wouldnt be able to get off until they were 2-3 months old. Which would leave a large gap when mothers milk would not be enough and getting them food would be a problem. I suspect that the kitten fell down when mother was carrying another kitten away. It could have been the last kitten on the roof and it was scared.
I think we will still put food out for a few days and see what happens.
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
Hats off to you and family FFT for taking the time and trouble....and having the patience to go through all of this. Feels good, doesn't it. 
Pete
Pete Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
not sure my wife feels 100% the same !
The first time she was up there, as she was sliding back under the 2 foot gap towards the ladder, mother came back and gave her a right scare with claws, teeth and noise. It was a close run thing as to whether my wife would get to the ladder or fall off the roof into the pool.
And, afterwards, the photo below shows the mother well aware of the camera. We decided it wasnt good for the littlun to get any closer and risk a reaction.
To be honest, the noise from the kitten would have haunted me for a long time if we had just let it bake to death under the roof tiles. I had already phoned a builder and pest control (both phones turned off) to ask them to come out. I am not good with small animals and dying sounds.
Food has gone out onto the roof again, i heard the mother a few minutes ago, so they are close somewhere. just hope its out of reach of the dogs in the area....
The first time she was up there, as she was sliding back under the 2 foot gap towards the ladder, mother came back and gave her a right scare with claws, teeth and noise. It was a close run thing as to whether my wife would get to the ladder or fall off the roof into the pool.
And, afterwards, the photo below shows the mother well aware of the camera. We decided it wasnt good for the littlun to get any closer and risk a reaction.
To be honest, the noise from the kitten would have haunted me for a long time if we had just let it bake to death under the roof tiles. I had already phoned a builder and pest control (both phones turned off) to ask them to come out. I am not good with small animals and dying sounds.
Food has gone out onto the roof again, i heard the mother a few minutes ago, so they are close somewhere. just hope its out of reach of the dogs in the area....
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traveller2
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Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
??????????????????????.........that garden definitely needs some water.traveller2 wrote:Good work fft!
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
Not good news. It looks 99% certain that overnight the kittens were killed.
This morning, i heard mother mewing at about 9am. went to get some food for it and put it in the usual place on the roof. At that point it was noticed that mother wasnt on the sala or the roof, but on the floor, under the sala. Just lying there, looking not happy, not aggressive. As i approached it, i expected it to hiss or show claws, but it let me get quite closed (2 metres or so), before getting up and walking away. after a few metres, it looked round and stopped. As i got closer, the same thing happened. And indeed it happened until it jumped over the wall at the back of the house and entered a very overgrown ditch at the back. It seemed to want me to follow - to show me something. So i climbed over the wall (havnt done this sort of thing for a while). It then left the undergrowth and sat on next doors pump house looking at me. Strangely, father was also on the wall of the house next door overlooking the same ditch.
I had a look, but it is so overgrown with bourganvillea type stuff and others that i couldnt get to the bottom of it. I then left the cats, and with my wifes help struggled back over the wall.
I was then sat outside with a cup of tea when the cat re-appeared and lay down under the sala again. I got the food off the roof and placed it quite close, but it didnt eat much. after 10 minutes of me talking to it, it got up (i know) and wandered over to the car, where it sat for a while, then sat in the middle of the road and then sat under the car in a house opposite. It just seemed dazed and confused.
I had a further look when wearing more clothes later, but couldnt see any signs of blood or bodies. Mother also didnt appear physically damaged.
This morning, i heard mother mewing at about 9am. went to get some food for it and put it in the usual place on the roof. At that point it was noticed that mother wasnt on the sala or the roof, but on the floor, under the sala. Just lying there, looking not happy, not aggressive. As i approached it, i expected it to hiss or show claws, but it let me get quite closed (2 metres or so), before getting up and walking away. after a few metres, it looked round and stopped. As i got closer, the same thing happened. And indeed it happened until it jumped over the wall at the back of the house and entered a very overgrown ditch at the back. It seemed to want me to follow - to show me something. So i climbed over the wall (havnt done this sort of thing for a while). It then left the undergrowth and sat on next doors pump house looking at me. Strangely, father was also on the wall of the house next door overlooking the same ditch.
I had a look, but it is so overgrown with bourganvillea type stuff and others that i couldnt get to the bottom of it. I then left the cats, and with my wifes help struggled back over the wall.
I was then sat outside with a cup of tea when the cat re-appeared and lay down under the sala again. I got the food off the roof and placed it quite close, but it didnt eat much. after 10 minutes of me talking to it, it got up (i know) and wandered over to the car, where it sat for a while, then sat in the middle of the road and then sat under the car in a house opposite. It just seemed dazed and confused.
I had a further look when wearing more clothes later, but couldnt see any signs of blood or bodies. Mother also didnt appear physically damaged.
Re: mother and 4 kittens on the roof...
what a tragic end but it seems Mother, despite her attitude, did trust you after all! You and your wife did your best.