Getting divorced, HELP

[margaretcarnes]

[
My answer to that is correct Hua Hin is a very safe city for most but when big money is concerned it can be dangerous remember what happened to Toby and more recent the guy that was termially ill and the greedy Mrs could not wait for the poor fella to fall asleep.

I don't want to come across as negative but in Thailand you should not be flippant about your personal safety.

Kendo. [/quote]

Yes - not worth the risk IMO. And I'm puzzled by some of the advice given by Mr D's lawyer. Firstly that there's no rush to reply, and second that 6 mill a year is acceptable? Damn right it's acceptable to a Thai from the sticks!
I wonder how that would compare to any advice Chavelit Finch would give. They surely know the culture much better than a lawyer in Switzerland.
Regardless of any Thai laws does the potential length of time it might take to settle through the Thai courts really warrant giving away 6 mill a year? Especially knowing that it will more than likely go on gambling and drugs. Why? Because no small village Thai is going to suddenly elevate themselves up the social scale on the basis of that money alone. It wouldn't work. OK they might buy more farm land, employ more people, build up an existing small business. But that's a best case scenario IMO. More likely it would be money straight down the pan. I would go for a one off settlement and get out, hopefully unscathed.

[Nereus]

I wonder how that would compare to any advice Chavelit Finch would give. They surely know the culture much better than a lawyer in Switzerland

Firstly, have you personally used Chavelit Finch? On the two occasions that I have asked them to look at a case the answer was:
1. We do not do litigation.
2. We do not do collections.
Added to that it took them 5 days to bother to answer and then address the email with: "Hey"!

Secondly, if you bother to read the OP, he stated his Thai Lawyer is in Switzerland on holidays.

It is misleading comments like this that help to perpetuate the stories about Farangs having no legal rights in Thailand.

[Takiap]

Mr D, you only have one option........You've gotta whack her.


Jokes aside, six million per year seems a bit much if you ask me. How many years could this go on for, or have I missed something?

I have heard of several cases where foreigners get treated fairly in the courts, but I have also heard of other who weren't. In fact, one of the forum member who responded to this thread has been through court and my understanding is he lost the case completely, in that the courts ruled in favor of family.

Good luck, and as others have said, watch your back. It might not be necessary right now, but once the ball starts rolling, then it could well end up being necessary.

[Mr. Dumb]

Mr D, you only have one option........You've gotta whack her.

ha ha whack her; nice one, I would never think of that, well maybe once or was it twice no actually it may have been many more times.

Coming from Los Angeles it would not take much to have a plane full of thugs on a flight here right now, probably just a few sticks of coke and a flight ticket, I also have a place in Paris and most of the thugs there are from Albania they would do it just for a trip to Thailand.

Of course an action like this is not something that any forum member would ever get involved in.

Went out for a few beers last night and everywhere I went my wife must have been as all the girls knew my name "DARLING" ha ha

[Hilux]

From my experience there are mainly two reasons why a TG leaves a farang over night:

1) He is out of money
2) He has been fooling around with another TG

I am not saying that this is the case here, but if the the reason is one of the above (as I understand it option 1 is out of the question) it might be a good idea to find out what evidence she might have. Otherwise - as I have heard - the Thai court ruling may very well be more in her favour than yours.


Hilux

[Mr. Dumb]

Bit of an update, more to assist others than to know about my own situation.
My lawyer returned and I met him today
Lawyer has responded to Darlings lawyer requesting some clarification on grounds for divorce, “irrevocable breakdown” is not considered cause for divorce in Thailand. (Refer to last bullet point below).
The Thai Civil and Commercial Code provides for the following grounds for divorce:
1. The husband has taken another woman as his wife;
2. The wife has committed adultery;
3. One party is guilty of misconduct;
4. One spouse has seriously harmed the body or mind of the other;
5. One spouse has seriously insulted the other spouse or his/her ascendants;
6. One spouse has deserted the other for more than a year;
7. One spouse has been has been imprisoned for more than a year;
8. The spouses have voluntarily lived separately for more than three years;
9. The spouses have lived separately for more than three years;
10. One spouse has disappeared for more than three years;
11. One spouse has failed to give proper maintenance or support;
12. One spouse has been suffering from insanity for at least three years;
13. One spouse has broken the bond of good behavior;
14. One spouse is suffering from a communicable and dangerous disease;
15. One spouse has a physical disadvantage.
None apply in my case.
Other interesting points are as follows
• Cash in bank, if I can show that this money was brought in from overseas it is not considered in the case.
• Any cash or gifts given to her during our relationship are her sole assets. However it can help in negotiations if you have a record.
• If I can prove that I brought in cash to pay for cars the cars are considered as mine even if in her name, sure she can keep the cars but the value comes out of her settlement.
• If I can prove that I brought in cash to pay for investment in businesses they are considered as mine and not considered.
• Most legal firms do not want to take on litigation cases as they make too little money out of it they would sooner assist in negotiations without the need to go to court.
• It is unlikely that any divorce case once registered in court will take more than six months to be concluded.
• In negotiations my lawyer has suggested final outcome should be around 2m to her and let her keep one car. She will not wish to go to court and accept the potential legal costs she will incur. He is also in the process of getting word to her family through back channels and this will put pressure on her once they understand the legal firm representing me. Remember Thais respect and even fear high level people with contacts.
• In my lawyers opinion most Thai females go to cheap lawyers who are not the best and are only interested in direct fees and keeping the case going. They also are lacking in understanding of the law.

[frank1957]

Mr D, looks like things are on the up for you I'm glad to see, if you fancy a beer or 3 sometime just let me know

[Mr. Dumb]

Hi Frank,
at this time I am a little busy as you might understand and soon I am off to USA so not much time just now, maybe when I get back to LOS.

[Siani]

6 mil on her, or much less on a good lawyer .... which makes more sense to you mate?

Start asset stripping and selling on the quiet as well mate. Every baht shifted is one less she can get her 50% of.

Good luck mate, and do watch your back.

This is sound advice from SM. What you haven't got she can't have a share of.

Be cautious. Sell cars and other items of value quickly. Get sound legal advice but you may have to hide assets from even the lawyer and get them hidden.
I had a cousin aged 57yrs who married a Thai girl 27yrs, he lost everything..I cannot put details on the forum as it would not be right for him, others might recognise who it is, even though he was not living anywhere near HH. Believe me it was horrendous, he had a lot of money and has now ended up in a rented flat back in the UK, a broken man.
My advice is to move & sell things as quickly as possible.


Good luck!

[MrPlum]

Based on his last post, I think he has it covered and must be feeling more reassured.

[Siani]

Based on his last post, I think he has it covered and must be feeling more reassured.

Yes, he has a long list from his lawyer, but still has to be very careful even though a lawyer is dealing with it.
I would still sell as much as I could, especially if I had bought them in the first place.

[Super Joe]

Start asset stripping and selling on the quiet as well mate. Every baht shifted is one less she can get her 50% of.

This is sound advice from SM. What you haven't got she can't have a share of.

I was of this opinion to 10 mins ago but just read the following while digging out bits of the law relevant to what I was gonna post about. 'IF' anything you flog off later adjudged 'marital property', (Sin Somros), then there's several laws that would have been broken and presumably damaging to your moral high-ground advantage. Not to mention having to pay it back, so to speak...
Section 1534: Where either spouse has made disposal of the Sin Somros for his or her exclusive benefit, or has made disposal thereof with an intention to cause injury to the other, or has made disposal thereof without the consent of the other in the case where such disposal is required by law to have consent of the other, or has wilfully destroyed it, it shall, for the purpose of division of the Sin Somros under Section 1533, be regarded as if such property had still remained. If the share of the Sin Somros that the other will receive is not complete to what he or she should have received, the party at fault is required to make up for the arrears from his or her share of the Sin Somros or his or her Sin Suan Tua.
Start flogging 'her' gear off tomorrow and you may well end up solving the 'grounds for divorce' issue by this time next week

From what I understand the law is 50/50 split for all assets from the date of marriage, however does this include all assets I personally have purchased with money I brought in from overseas? My business ventures, property, cars etc, if so then I will be better off settling rather than go the 50/50 way.

Leaving aside the more fundamental possessions a family has become accustomed to, (family home, furniture, car/bike etc), when it comes to additional investments/businesses that were wholly funded by one spouse the law seems fairly clear IMO, the investment is personal property and the fruits/profits are communal property. And having a papertrail seems to be the critical factor in determining whether or not you have to give 50% of it away...
Section 1472 - As regards to Sin Suan Tua (personal property), if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua. Where the Sin Suan Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property, or money, such other property shall be Sin Suan Tua.
Section 1473 - Each spouse is manager of his or her Sin Suan Tua.

And having the right to manage your personal property as you see fit plays a vital role because you can choose to employ your wife and her whole family to run it for you without relinquishing any (official legal anyway) control or ownership rights. So for example you invest 10m Baht into a business and leave your wife to work there and manage it 7 days a week as a salaried employee and it is now valued at 12m Baht. If you can demonstrate the initial 10m investment were from your personal account overseas then the split should be 11m to you and 1m to her... but say you worked there 24/7 while she sat on the sofa and you could not demonstrate you funded it... then the wife will be entitled to 6m Baht. Apparently, according to all the legal articles I've come accross on the subject.
ESTABLISH AS MUCH OF A PAPER TRAIL AS YOU CAN... I think would be sound advice to those yet to ship over

And remember WHAT IT IS YOU HAVE when you start to dredge a river and find two lawyers buried under your feet. A good start

SJ

[kendo]

Good to see you back on here SJ.
Kendo.

[margaretcarnes]

I wonder how that would compare to any advice Chavelit Finch would give. They surely know the culture much better than a lawyer in Switzerland

Firstly, have you personally used Chavelit Finch? On the two occasions that I have asked them to look at a case the answer was:
1. We do not do litigation.
2. We do not do collections.
Added to that it took them 5 days to bother to answer and then address the email with: "Hey"!

Secondly, if you bother to read the OP, he stated his Thai Lawyer is in Switzerland on holidays.

It is misleading comments like this that help to perpetuate the stories about Farangs having no legal rights in Thailand.

Chavelit Finch have been recommended by others - but yes it was my assumption that they would better understand a local problem. Perhaps that was wrong. But the figure quoted by the OP is still exhorbitant IMO. Yes I agree farang do have some rights, and there have been successful outcomes for them. However the cases I know of do involve children and custody battles. The OP hasn't mentioned children, which should make it much easier to dangle the settlement carrot surely?

[Mr. Dumb]

Just a few points, and this is without supporting the other party.
During my time in the military I was taught that unless time is of the essence you never make assumptions, you gather all possible information, you assess all information gathered, you prepare responses based on the information gathered and have back up plans, you prepare your own resources and you take action at a time to suit you
Some other points.
1. There are no children involved
2. No one has any proof that there is another man involved or any family pressure so really no one has the right to make such suggestion, it is very easy for anyone to make unfounded accusations. In fact via my lawyer the family has been contacted and the mother and father are traveling here on Tuesday to meet with me and maybe their daughter if they can contact her.
3. I have an excellent paper trail of all transactions both business and private, to be honest I am somewhat of a nut on keeping records. More people should keep better records of their finances.
4. To sell of assets in haste is one of the worst mistakes anyone can ever make and to do this to hide information from the law would be a terrible mistake. Someone stated “What you haven’t got she can’t get a share of” this is 100% INCORRECT as I can still be held liable for those assets.
5. 4m per year for 6 years is 24m, this is a lot of money however it is nowhere near 50% of our assets so in reality this could be a reasonable settlement fee to gain quick closure of a difficult situation. In business it is not uncommon to make large settlements to mitigate the possibility of much higher costs should the issue be prolonged, just look at the settlements the big banks have made in recent months all with the proviso that all future litigation be stopped. It is called putting a cap on your liabilities.
6. As for the people who suggest driving in different cars, carry a stun gun, carry pepper spray, and change your routine, my god you have been watching to many spy movies. If you are so scared to be in Hua Hin then leave here.